Topic: could anyone hazard a date for this bristol green wine please?

[bfg]

evening 

I have a bristol green funnel / trumpet bowl wine glass which I had tentatively put around 1930s give or take 10 years based on the previous owners provenance but on trawling the net I have seen similar ones given a much earlier date

have I got it wrong? is this shape typical of a particular era?

Ht: 5 inches

many thanks for any pointers

Mel

[Paul S.]

not easy pieces to be certain of always, but my thoughts for what they're worth are.........

this is a certainly a shape that occured around 1810 - 30 (mainly Regency I think) although perhaps not the most common  -  and the colour is probably o.k.
BUT..........
on yours the stem appears a little too thin  -  looking at pix of genuine examples, there doesn't appear to be any stinting on thickness of stem - definitely more chunky than yours, and the mouth might be a tad narrow on this one.            It should be quite heavy for it's size - they tend to be somewhere between 4 and 5 inches, and the originals should sit firmly on their feet, not just on the rim.

Is it lead glass - it should be, and give a good ring - and can't quite see the finish in the pontil area.

Peter may have a much better idea                  

[bfg]

hi Paul, was hoping you were still about this eve, thanks for your thoughts :-)

I'll add some daylight pics tomorrow to show the colour better and the shadows may give the illusion of a thinner stem than it actually is

I'd say the foot sits flat and it has a lovely and lingering ring but the pontil mark looks very clumsy to me. I have some lovely early Viccy cut wine glasses and the finish is far more refined than this

THe width of the bowl at rim  is 2.75 inches

yes, would welcome Peter's comments too if he pops in

[Paul S.]

hi Mel

meant to say that these Bristol coloured drinking glasses weren't apparently intended for wine, but were made for drinking port  -  and
as to the bowl shape, it seems to be that if there is any flaring to the bowl then it's trumpet, but if the sides are straight then it's conical.

The colour is not a major factor - these things came in a variety of shades, from pale to very dark, so it doesn't help when dating.

For period, the foot should be generous in diameter when compared with size of the rim - and a possible indication of a Georgian/Regency bowl is that small raised cushion (sometimes with a central dimple) found at the bottom of the bowl  -  as opposed to a plain curved profile of later bowls.

Feet should have plenty of striations and tool marks, and if early C19 is likely to have an edge profile that curves downward to meet a flat foot.
Don't think you want to see a symmetrically round edge to the foot.         I could be wrong, but would prefer to see a depression under the foot rather than a snapped scar.

I've six or seven of these things, but must admit to not really being sure about them  -  green was a much copied colour, especially in drinking glasses, well into the C20 - and I dare say are still being made.                There's hardly an antiques centre anywhere that doesn't have a few knopped, conical shaped, Bristol green 'Georgian' glasses - allegedly - on show.
May well be wrong, but regret to say I'm still of the opinion that your glass appears too slim for period.

Neil might also have some ideas on this - believe he collects this period.

 

[oldglassman]

HI
           Unfortunately I cant really add much, as has been said these types can span a hundred year period so without it being in the hand to look at the metal it is very difficult to determine which era it may have come from , personally it looks to be a later example to me , the flattish foot etc ,
Can I also say Paul that the dimple sometimes found at the base of bowls is only found in 3 piece glasses, it being the result of glass being pushed up from under the bowl during attachment of the stem you will not see it in 2 piece glasses, a day out with the Georgian glass makers at Quarley is a real eye opener for learning about the construction of antique glasses
 Sorry I can be of more help on this 1 .

 cheers ,
                Peter.

[Paul S.]

thanks for the correction Peter re the dimple at the bottom of bowl .

Whilst I appreciate that C18 pieces have the higher terraced/domed shape of foot (originating with the need to accommodate a substantial snapped scar that wouldn't scratch the table), I had a feeling that with much of this 'Bristol' coloured material from the early C19, feet were, in comparison, a lot flatter.          I'd agree this one might well be a much later copy.

[bfg]

thanks Paul & Peter

lots of useful info there

Will stick to my original thoughts :-)

[oldglassman]

Hi ,
          The great majority of 18th c drinking glasses have what are termed conical feet which can be quite flat. they can be plain or folded these have just enough clearance for the scar to be lifted above the table , some can be higher than others but still referred to as conical ,terraced feet ,normally found on Firing glasses can be quite flat but again with just enough clearance to avoid scratching,clever guys the Georgians were , domed feet yes by there nature will accommodate a pretty rough scar and domed feet can be either have a flared conical edge  if that makes sense? which is plain or folded.
  cheers ,
                Peter.

edited to add  , I could if it would helpful provide images of most types of feet found on 17th and 18th c glass.

[bfg]

I for one would be most grateful for that, thank you Peter

[oldglassman]

Hi ,
          Try these for starters , there are other foot forms , not done the photos yet though some like the domed and terraced  and the double domed are very very rare and have escaped capture so far there are also moulded feet of various types and one or 2 others , I do have them so will add them to the album in the future. I have also include the glasses the feet belong too so that you can see them in context


https://picasaweb.google.com/100765996251128945027/FootForms?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCMTSqoDS3-yldw&feat=directlink

cheers ,
              Peter

edited ,   more added