Topic: A traforato type - lattice trellis closed pear shaped pot with threading on bowl

[flying free]

I've just bought a clear one of these items .  It hasn't arrived yet but I'll post pics when it does.
It looks to be the same maker as Jinxi's posted here (reply 20 on thread):

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,36683.msg201514.html#msg201514
'Here is a link to a set of photos on Flick'r

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55140067@N07/sets/72157625115737873/

Veronica'

I mentioned on the first linked thread below that I thought Veronica's bowl/pear shaped pot might be English.  Boulton and Mills patented a rim in this lattice/trellis work and Thomas Webb patented a bowl in this as well.  The threading and colours on Veronica's reminded me of those threaded preserve dishes and also reminded me of Stevens and Williams colours, whilst the rim of the solid threaded bit reminds me a little of the squarish in and out shape rim patented, I thought, by Stevens and Williams iirc?  Does anyone else think they do?
 I need to go and check sources and will add info.  I'll add pics of my pear shaped pot when it arrives.

Gulliver's Victorian Decorative Glass British Designs 1840-1915 (N.B. despite title not all pieces in the book are British):
page 25 Stuart and Son
- a clear glass bowl with threading (turned over rim and applied shells to edge of rim)
- an amber threaded fan shaped bowl with an in and out crimped rim, elongated waves rather than just pinches for the crimps
page 37
- a clear trellis lattice rim as per these pots no 18, no maker designated
page 118
top left a vase machine threaded c.1890 '... The very pale ruby glass body is formed from a quilted diamond pattern mold, and decorated all over with citrine color glass machine threading....' no designated maker (need to find a thread from Bernard where he thought one of his pieces might have been Stevens and Williams Moresque but I think it turned out to be Stuart and Sons)
edited to add
page 199 tazza bottom right  blown into a diamond quilted mold in pale ruby glass with amber glass machine threading  - my notes say 'ref Bernard, Stuart 3890, 1882 - info on GMB 19/11/12'

Trellis work references from Gulliver's:
Page 275
Boulton and Mills open top trellis rim (i.e. zig zag at the top) registered design number 118864 Feb 2nd 1889
Boulton and Mills trellis rose bowl shaped with trellis flared foot design number 122096 march 26 1889
Boulton and Mills also registered a bowl with threading 249451 Feb 14 1895 so they did use threading.



Links to other threads with a traforato type pieces here:
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,54884.msg311028.html#msg311028
and
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,36683.msg199874.html#msg199874

m

[flying free]

I have found Bernard's thread I was thinking of and the information on there is possibly for another piece with threading -
Pattern no 3701  Stuart
'The succinct description reads: "Ruby body, diamond moulded, amber threads over."   Pattern number 3701, dated July 12 1881, and made in several sizes.'
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,5410.msg99233.html#msg99233

so I seem to have two Stuart pattern number of threading over a ruby body.

Just to add in case there are any queries later if pics disappear, Veronica's pear has a clear trellis top and reeded 'stalk' but the bowl bit at the bottom appears to be pale ruby glass threaded in amber.  That's why I've been trying to find a maker who used this combination
So far, unfortunately there are no references I can find to Stuart making trellis or lattice work. 

Charles Hajdamach's British Glass 1800-1914
page 436 design number 25929 1901 Thomas Webb 'Open Trellis' vase with coloured lining 7" tall (this looks very similar to Carder Steuben pieces I've seen btw).  It's an almost straight sided pattern that looks taller than it is wider and as though it has handles on either side at rim height.

m

[flying free]

aha!
Charles Hajdamach's British Glass 1800-1914 page 285
There is a small  bowl in clear glass that may or may not be threaded, very difficult to tell from the photo as it actually looks like frosted glass ( it is not described as being threaded or frosted though) with applied plain clear handles that undulate down and become feet.  The body o of the bowl definitely looks like a different 'type' of glass to the handles and the trellis rim which can be seen to be clear plain glass.  The rim of this bowl is two layers of clear plain trellis or  lattice glass .  It is by Stevens and Williams pattern number 7922 October/November 1882.

[flying free]

The pear has arrived and it's beautiful .... and old and very definitely not new   very little wear to the base at all but also glows with a pale yellow glow that all my old glass does.
It's big and measures 7 1/4" high x 4 1/2" diameter (approx 18.5cm x 11.5cm)
The rim of the 'threaded bowl' bit is castellate,  and to each outward part the first level of the up and down trellis is attached.

I didn't take a picture of the base but the pontil mark is polished and very large, not as large as my French pieces are, but large like my Stevens and Williams pieces all are, much larger than my other English pieces from Stuart/Walsh for example. 

Now to find the maker, but my gut tells me English and probably Stevens and Williams to start with exploring 

[flying free]

The glass is quite substantial, not fine and thin and the bowl bit is optically ribbed.
pics of pontil mark added.

m

[bfg]

Hi m, what an unusual beast. I wondered why they added the trellis work to a crimped trailed bowl and not just make the pear completely out of trellis work?

Then as luck would have it I'm browsing books this eve and although I know Manley is not taken as gospel these days there is a trellis ware vase (184 pg 78) (liner missing) that also has a solid base so I suppose its a strength thing.

He mentions S/W and T Webb as makers

Mel

[flying free]

Oh thanks for that and for remembering when going through.
What shape is the Manley - is it a straight sided vase that looks like an ice bucket? with maybe handles from the rim?
thanks again
m

edited to add:
I found the reference I was thinking of regarding the castellated rim but it was a comment from someone rather than a source.  I did find an Osiris bowl (and a few other pieces) with that type of box pleat rim, but I'm just thinking, even if Stevens & Williams did register it somewhere, others might have followed suit anyway I guess.
http://gorgeousglass.org.uk/collections/getrecord/DMUSE_BH2891/

[bfg]

straight sided, no handles 12" high with a solid base that looks to be star cut. with a ruby liner would have been stunning

[bfg]

m, have you seen the Harrach link on collectors weekly? A trellis ware swan originally id-d as S/W T/Webb now id-d Rudolf Schwelder, 1937.

don't know how sound CW attributions are - I tend to avoid like the plague.

But another company making this type of ware may be worth investigating? perhaps?

[flying free]

Thank you!  I will go and have a look -

and me also

And, I'm sure others did threading but the rim and the threading and the amber over pale ruby of Jinxi's bowl are making me think English just at the moment.  I might veer off at a tangent though at some point 

edited - thank you  Not sure I can match any features though apart from the trellis (the bowl is not ribbed or threaded and the pontil mark is much smaller than on mine and Veronica's bowl)- but will investigate in my Harrach book.

Edited again
Just for reference-
I'm not entirely sure about the id of the swan to be honest.  I'm never sure how close these things have to be to be correct iyswim?  The one in the book:
-  has a green bowl and clear head and trellis
-  the trellis is much closer and neater
-  the neck of the swan is very elegant and gets much thinner towards the head
-  the neck doesn't curve over like those shown, but finishes  just curved from upright almost with a beautifully neat and pretty shaped    head and beak
- there appears to be an applied eye set quite far back on the head

So ... I'm not sure if those are the same designer or not really     It could be I'm just nit picking but those look clunkier and chunkier.
m