Topic: Karl Wiedmann, Gralglas -- or rather not?

[chopin-liszt]

 

Panicking mildly here, I bought the ashtray from Anik. 
I absolutely adore it. It is a seriously classy bit of glass, no matter who made it. But I do like it being Gralglas and Karl Weidman.
Is that in doubt now?

[flying free]

Looking at Glaskilian in your link Michael, doesn't his page read Gral-glas OR WMF?  So he doesn't know either which firm it came from.
http://www.glaskilian.de/Ikora-Glas-Vase-Design-Karl-Wi.144+B6YmFja1BJRD0xNDQmcHJvZHVjdElEPTE5NTQ2JnBpZF9wcm9kdWN0PTE0NCZkZXRhaWw9.0.html

and again I think there are differences between yours
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=55968.0;attach=149982;image
and Glaskilian's, and this one
http://www.glaskilian.de/Vase_Gral_Glas.144+B6YmFja1BJRD0xNDQmcHJvZHVjdElEPTExODYmcGlkX3Byb2R1Y3Q9MTQ0JmRldGFpbD0_.0.html

It seems to me on this orange one the top is shorter , the foot is slightly different, the casing at the bottom is different and the way the colours are laid on is also not quite the same.
The colours looks more of a match in the way it is constructed, with Anik's three multi coloured candle holders than the blue and chloride one.  And they don't stretch like yours and Glaskilian's.
But that could just be me looking at minutiae - perhaps this is all just part of the range and how it was made.
m

[rocco]

@ Sue: I feel a little embarrassed now, I didn't have any intention to panic other owners of these lovely pieces
Just trying to investigate the matter further if some of the pieces usually attributed to Wiedmann and Gralglas (like the ones in my other thread) really are...
I am far from sure that the ones from this thread and the ones from >> the other thread are by the same maker alltogether (those are much better finished)

@ m: I can see some subtle differences, but not enough to make me think the two vases could be from different makers. Glaskilian states "free blown", so that would probably explain the varying shapes. And all of these seem to be 31 cm high.

But I may be completely off the track anyway with all my wild speculation here

Michael

[dirk.]

Difficult.
First I think the candleholders and vases in question are from the same maker without a doubt. I have two of each in exactly the same colourway / decoration.

At the time I contaced Mr. Hofmann I only had two candleholders. (Those with powder decoration like the vases; those with powder and large bubbles are sometimes signed - according to Günther Hofmann again the later ones) I showed him a bunch of ca. 12 pictures, respectively his daughter showed them to him on the computer screen and later on the phone he told me that all of these were Gralglas.

As I see it there may be a small chance he was mistaken due to the number of pictures perhaps, but... I wish this contact would have lasted, but unfortunately it didn´t.... 

I´ve become more suspicious meanwhile myself, too. Not only because these are missing in the book and we´ve not been able to find a labelled one, but also because the clear glass used for casing seems to have a different formula also.

While Gralglas clear glass always seems to show an orange glow under UV the pieces in question have a green one.
    

[flying free]

HI Dirk
when you say you have two of each, do you mean two multicoloured candle holders, two just blue with chlorides and then two vases? or do you just have the blue with chlorides candle holders and the vases?
I'm just trying to work out that when you say from the same maker, do you mean all the pieces, or just that the blue with chlorides ball candle holder and the vases are the same maker, leaving aside the multi coloured ball candle holders?
Sorry to be so pedantic, but I just wanted to be clear which pieces Mr Hoffman had said was Gral Glas.

Then, when you say they are all from the same maker do you mean all the pieces , i.e. the multi coloured ball candle holders Anik has, and the blue with chlorides ball candle holder and the vases as well?

apologies again, but I just want to make sure I've understood correctly 

So it seems from the UV experiment that the clear glass casing on all these pieces does not match the clear glass casing from your Gral Glas pieces.  Is that possibly explainable because they are from a different period in the factory's life so they might have been using a different batch for the clear glass?  or might it only be explained by the fact they come from a different factory?
that is the question.
m

[chopin-liszt]

The clear glass of the ashtray glows (dirty) orange under uv.
whew!

Not that I would have liked it any less. It is what it is and gorgeous. 

I should never have doubted Anik. 

[dirk.]

No problem... I´ve left out WMF completely to avoid even more confusion... 

When I said I meant these are from the same maker without a doubt I was thinking of these.
I had shown a candleholder to Mr. Hofmann and he ID´d it as Gral (but I´m skeptic now).
Their green glow, apart from other objections, underlines my doubts.

[dirk.]

Same doubts unfortunately still apply to the chloride pieces. No documentation, glow etc...

[dirk.]

OTOH - the decor Fumaris has the same characteristics - silver chloride, but this time also used
for outer decoration. These are usually signed - although I also have an exception. And like on
other Gral pieces the clear glows orange.

[flying free]

ok, and thank you for clarifying with pictures.
I still see differences between Anik's candle holders i.e.the two on the left look by the same hand/range, the one on the right here doesn't. To me it looks like your first set of pictures with the blue and chloride vase and the blue and chloride ball candle holder.
http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,38212.msg236192.html#msg236192

However the two ball candle holders on the left of Anik's picture do have more similarities with the vase on the right in your picture 2 although I would still say the colours aren't laid on in the same way.  But I dont' have them in hand to see.

You are saying you feel your ball candleholder and vase in pic one and also the vase in pic two are made by the same maker.
So the ones that stick out for me in all this are the two ball candle holders on the left of Anik's picture.  I wonder if they glow green or orange because to me they look like different production - either different 'range' or different time period, maybe they are earlier and the other pieces are all later or something?

For what it's worth, I do think the ashtray has more similarities with the two multicoloured ball candleholders from Anik, than the plainer blue with chlorides one.  The similarity in the ashtray to the plainer blue with chlorides candle holder is the colour blue.  But that is where it stops for me.
However it might be the one thing that could link them all together except that Dirk shows a plainer blue with chlorides candle holder and says it glows green.  Whereas Sue says her ashtray glows orange. I bet the multi coloured ball candle holders glow orange

http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,46485.msg261106.html#msg261106


m