Topic: Does anyone know the design number for this Sowerby sweet dish?

[nick.a]

Hi,
This Sowerby sweet dish is on disc one of the Thistlewoods Sowerby discs, and is from page 31 of the 1898 catalogue (the only page of this catalogue shown). Unfortunately, like many pages on the disc, the bottom of the page is missing right through the design numbers. I'm hoping that someone out there has the full page version and has the numbers.
Thanks
Nick

[Paul S.]

Hi nick               not an easy piece to visualize how it sits/stands  -  the factory image makes the perspective difficult to understand.

I could be wrong, but it's possible the factory pattern might read 'Sweet 2215' - a number which would fit generally with others patterns on the same page - but that's really only a partly educated guess  - Fred may possibly know the answer to this one.
Glen Thistlewood did provide an explanation for the missing factory pattern nos. some while back, and this situation occurs on other drawings from the catalogue, which regrettably is unavoidable.

The only source I know of where both Sowerby factory pattern nos. AND Board of Trade Registration nos. are shown, is in Simon Cottle's booklet issued for the Tyne & Wear Museums Service ' . Sowerby Gateshead Glass'.
Unfortunately, Simon Cottle's list of factory pattern nos. is very lean after about 1880, although he continues to show Registration nos. up until 1894 (Rd. No. 238352) - which may well have been the final Registration under the name of Sowerby & Co.  -  after which the company name becomes George Sowerby  -  and it looks as though Registrations re-commence in 1900.
Although I haven't checked, I would have thought this sort of information may well be on the Thistlewood discs.
Anyway, it seems not possible to link factory pattern 2215 (if that is correct) with a corresponding Board of Trade Rd. No.

The shape of your 'sweet' appears unique, and it may have been Registered, but always the possibility that it never was.

Probably better not to refer to the numbers on the Sowerby catalogue pages as 'design Nos. -  my reason for suggesting this is that most people know the catalogue details as factory pattern Nos., and reserve the expression 'design Nos.' for the the Board of Trade Registrations.

Let's hope Fred can give us the answer to this one.

[nick.a]

Hi Paul,
Thanks for all the information, 2215 was my best guess too, unfortunately there is no lozenge so registration is unconfirmed. I have a spreadsheet on 'Excel' with all the relevant data for each item in my collection, so even without Rd numbers I like to have as much info as possible. Hopefully Fred may have more information.
I'll post extra pics when I have a moment, so that you have a better idea of form.
Thanks also for the 'factory pattern' pointer, being new to this it's always good to get the terms correct.
Best Regards
Nick

[agincourt17]

I’m afraid that I am unable to cast any more light on the sweet dish.

I presume that it doesn't bear the Sowerby peacock head trademark – in which case I congratulate Nick on identifying it as a Sowerby piece initially and  then especially for tracking it down in the 1898 Pattern book. A nice find, Nick.

I agree that the part Sowerby pattern number revealed on the Thistlewood CD-ROM catalogue for 1898 could well be 2215.

I’ve checked through all my reference photos of Sowerby pieces and it would seem that Nick’s photo is the only one I know of that shows this particular Sowerby pattern.

Many of the late Victorian Sowerby patterns, especially those for tableware rather than decorative ware, seem to be from unregistered designs, with actual pieces hard to find and identify (and so photos of actual pieces are correspondingly scarce).

Fred.

[nick.a]

Thanks Fred,
No Peacock mark I'm afraid, but such an unusual shape that once seen, never forgotten. I shall post some better photos tomorrow, feel free to use them if you need to. Once again both you and Paul prove to be so informative on all matters English pressed glass, It's much appreciated.
Best Regards
Nick

[Anne]

Hi nick               not an easy piece to visualize how it sits/stands  -  the factory image makes the perspective difficult to understand.

Eeek! I was going cross-eyed trying to figure this one out until my OH looked at it and said that the dishes have to be oval and it will sit flat. Having told my brain that, I can now see it as it's meant to be and not how I was envisioning it, as a tent shaped piece with round dishes which the jam would ooze off onto the tablecloth! 

[Paul S.]

ah - yes, I think I see now..........    It never occurred to my brain that nick was showing a picture in 'plan perspective'   i.e.   looking down on the piece   ............   at least I think that's was he's done

[Anne]

I think so, Paul. I found it easier to see by rotating the image through 180 degrees. My brain felt happier with it that way! 

[nick.a]

Apologies to Anne, Paul et al for the photo, which shows the same perpective as the pattern picture in the catalogue. Hope the attached picsgive a better idea of form & function ( a career in photography doesn't beckon )
Best Regards
Nick

[Anne]

Nick, thank you for the new pics, they do help enormously! I have to admit to a liking for double sweets - I have 3 of them on my bedside table to keep things in - they are useful and interesting as well as being pretty objects.