Topic: Is this celery vase American EAPG ? If so what pattern (similar Little River ?)

[feisty]

Hi all.

Picked this nice celery vase up from a local vintage fair for the grand price of £4 this weekend gone.   I recognised it straight away as an old piece of pressed glass, though didnt know if it was British (I am in the UK after all) or maybe Continental European.

After a little bit of research I figured out that it might actually be American (is it called EAPG ?).    I couldnt find this pattern but I found a very similar pattern in 3 panels like this called 'Little River'.

Could anyone help me confirm that it is American, and if it is a known pattern (any information in general would be gratefully recieved).

Thank you.

Chris.

PS.  Hope ive put this is the right section, didnt know whether I should put in the American glass sub-forum or not.

[Sid]

Hello

Your celery is almost certainly made in one of the UK glass factories.  I have three pieces - celery, individual sized cream and open sugar basin - all of which came here to Canada from the UK.  There is also a full size cream and open sugar basin. Each piece has three scenes in oval frames around the body with stippling between the frames.  The glass used to make these contains lead resulting in a very pleasant bell toned ring when tapped - particularly the celery vase.  The current accepted name for this pattern is English Scenes based on the high likelihood of their origin.  The items in this pattern are rarely found in North American and as mentioned above all of mine came from the UK.

The pieces considered Little River are limited to two pickle jars with three scenes in oval frames with a tree of life pattern between the frames.  The glass used to make these is soda lime meaning that they do not have that nice crystal type ring when tapped.  These pickle jars are relatively easily found in North America and appeared in c1886 wholesale catalogs leading to the conclusion that they are American.

Sid

[feisty]

Thank you Sid, that's very helpful.   Would I still be correct then in assuming that the date is late 19thC?   It still looks that kind of age to me but I just wanted to confirm.   I also wonder which of the firms made this pattern, one of the Manchester firms perhaps as I'm pretty close to Manchester.

[Sid]

Hello

The celery likely dates from the last quarter of the 19th century.  As to the maker, I would really like to know too.

Sid

[neilh]

I don't see evidence this is a Manchester piece as I can't find any examples of that type of frosting pattern. The only Manchester company that placed a picture within an oval on a celery that I can recall were Ker & Webb in a couple of commemoratives c1872, but the style is some way different.

The key might be to look at the frilly top of the vase. Molineaux Webb used that edging quite a lot in a brief time period from 1867-8 as you can see here:

https://sites.google.com/site/molwebbhistory/Home/registered-designs/molineaux-webb-designs-by-date/molineaux-webb-1868

It might be worth cross referencing against other manufacturers to see how common that type of finish was.

[Paul S.]

this is not a celery that I've seen previously, so regret cannot join in the debate as to which of the suggested origins might be correct.         Looking at the style and type of image shown on the vase, it appears to me to be un-English - almost central European in its portrayal of building type and forest surroundings, although that in itself doesn't rule out British manufacture.         Do people think that the overall image and style of building carries any weight in suggesting a particular origin?  -  I'd suggest that British made pieces carrying scenes like this are very thin on the ground.
Is the background stippling a decorative effect found on other U.K. made celery's that have known attribution?  Certainly there is frosting on British pieces  -  these things were made in such profusion and variety for a century or more.
Individual celery's, with panels showing different images, are known from the U.K.  -  one that comes to mind is Sowerby's Rd. 113560 from 13.11.1888  -  and this also has frosting on the part of the panels, although unlike the op's vase the Sowerby shape is hexagonal, and the images are floral and not scenic.

As a general rule, pressed pieces were not of lead glass, or at least not the general levels of 30% - 34% found in cut glass.    However, some pressed pieces will 'ring' due to their shape rather more than their content, and the bell-like shape of a celery might produce a 'ring' for the reason of its shape.
That's not to say that Sid's piece isn't a good lead-content celery  -  rather that pressed glass doesn't have a high lead content usually.
As a matter of interest Sid, are you able comment on the lead content generally, or otherwise, of EAPG.           For example did it differ from European pressed glass?

Also just out of general interest, would like to know the extent of wear on the foot of the op's celery.              However, interesting and unusual piece - a good find.

[Sid]

Hello

I try to keep my responses to areas in which I have knowledge, so these comments are limited to the period from 1850 to 1900 or so.

In the United States, pressed glass table wares in the 1850s up to the early 1860s were made with a lead glass formula.  The lead in the batch formula resulted in a beautiful bright glass that was relatively easy to work with.  In 1864, Wm. Leighton of Wheeling, WV came up with a new glass formula, soda-lime, which eliminated lead from the batch.  It has been postulated that the high demand for lead to make bullets during the Civil War created a compelling event that drove Leighton's investigations into a lead free glass.   The soda-lime glass was half the cost of the lead glass to produce, solidified faster thus enabling an increase in the rate of production and was much lighter in weight.  Within a few years, most of the pressed glass tableware production in the USA had been converted to soda-lime glass.  Exceptions were the upper end and art glass type wares where lead based glass formulae continued to be used.  With the lower costs obtained with the soda lime glass, the demand for pressed glass table ware grew very rapidly. 

The glass factories in the UK also made their pressed glass using a lead based glass formula.  They appear to have been slower than the American firms in converting from the standard lead glass to soda-lime with lead being used to the late 1870s if not into the early 1880s.  This may have been due to different market conditions or a more conservative approach to change or even due to resistance from labour.  I can't speak to European glass since I haven't studied that area.

Stippling in the mould is a technique that followed mechanical frosting of the glass surface.  It eliminated the manual step of touching each piece to the roughing wheel and also allowed for the  un-stippled pattern areas to sit proud of the surface.  This celery is a good example of the latter advantage where the oval frame sits out about 3/16" from the stippled area.  As to its use in the UK, a quick look through the Sowerby and Davidson catalogues identified that they used stippling extensively for their products including celeries.

There are several ways of determining whether lead is present in glass.  The first and easiest is the bell like ring that you get from the gentlest tap to the glass.  If you have ever tapped a piece of lead glass you will never confuse it with the sound from a piece of soda-lime glass.  The lead glass sings with a touch and the soda lime glass has to be banged with a knuckle to get anything more than a short dull sound.  The second and next easiest is the weight - lead glass has a much higher specific gravity so any piece with significant lead content will be much, much heavier than the same piece in soda lime.  The third way is to shine a short wave UV lamp on it - lead based glass will glow a distinct white/blue.

Sid