Topic: Help with ID for silver rimmed open salt, possibly Webb or Stevens and Williams?

[chriss]

Hi does anyone know if this open salt is Webb or Stevens and Williams or possibly Harrach or Moser open salt please?
The silver hallmarked rim is Birmingham and I think it is an r which I believe dates it to 1891? It glows under uv/black light and has a lovely thick enameled gold detail of blossoms, possibly cherry?
Many thanks for your help
Chriss

 

[Lustrousstone]

Nice one. Stevens and Williams is unlikely IMO, as is Moser. What is the base colour under the gilding? You should be able to see where there is any wear.

[chriss]

Hi Lustrousstone and thanks for the reply I've looked with a really strong glass, stronger than most loupes (hubby is an engineer so I've 'borowed' it ) and there is one circle almost entirely missing (in the 2nd image along the bottom of the main branch to the right of the lower smaller branch ) which although the original glass doesn't appear any different apart from a tiny scuffed area, there is a type of browny/tarnished coloured residue left which the same colour can be seen along the applied decoration thoughout, where the shiny gilt has rubbed, I don't know if this is it's original colour or if the paste like substance has been discoloured over the 124 years of it's life though?
Hope this helps?    

[Lustrousstone]

If it is brownish and not yellow, I would look at English makers first. Bohemian gilding generally seems to have a yellow enamel base and English a brown one. This is a personal observation not a rule. (Raised gilding always has a base though and is invariably a little rubbed.) My guess would be one of the Webbs, though not necessarily Thomas

[chriss]

Hi Thanks for the reply, I've just found a similar piece which someone else had described as Webb too
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/390265123936385735

[Lustrousstone]

Be wary of auctioneers's attributions...

[agincourt17]

The rim bears a worn Birmingham sterling silver hallmark but I can’t read the date letter or the sponsor/maker from the photo. Although the rim may bear no strong or obvious relationship to the glassware, at least a date may offer some sort of clue.

Fred.

[Lustrousstone]

But not to who. Loads of "foreign" glass had its silver applied here

[chriss]

I took the glass to a jeweller and she said it was a birmingham stamp The date letter was an r but the jewellers have better eyes than me and she has it was l and dates to 1885 The makers mark has a 1st letter which the 1st half of the letter is missing and the 2nd half is a faint curve which could be a D?  the remainder is clear and reads '& L S'. If it is D & L S then according to
http://www.925-1000.com/dlBirmingham2.html#M and http://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Makers/Birmingham-D.html
they both give the same name for that set of letters and say one of the things they made were salts. I own some Bohemian Iridescent glass with british (London in that case) hallmarked rims? But Birmingham is quite close to Stourbridge (about 24 miles) so could this be an indication that they may have got the glass from there as Webb and Stevens & Williams were there please? 
Thanks

[chriss]

I'm not putting this link in to show an attribution from an auctioneer as I've taken it on board about being careful about attributions from auctioneers Lustrousstone But I just found this link which links the same decor of glass to the same silversmith

http://northeastauctions.com/product/victorian-pink-cased-glass-scent-bottle-the-silver-cap-by-david-and-a-burmese-glass-scent-bottle-the-silver-by-charles-may-birmingham-1888-89-both-possibly-t/

I don't know the accuracy of or anything about Carters.com, but on their Thomas Webb and Sons glass bottles page they have a spherical bottle with what looks to me as nearly the same enamel decor, but they also have custard glass further down the page which they describe as David and Lionel Spiers?

http://www.carters.com.au/index.cfm/index/2676-scent-bottles-webb-thomas-and-sons/