Topic: Elegant Opaline Bud Vase - Help with ID please?

[David E]

A very well made footed bud vase, 20cm tall, with wavy rim that's has a fine continuous blue trail. The opaline glass has an orange tint (fiery opalescence) when held up to the light - discussed before, and is the effect of adding bone ash to the mix. Is it possibly Italian?

The base of the foot has a broken pontil mark. I thought this was a ring pontil mark at first, but it does appear to be snapped off as usual.

One fascinating point is how they were able to apply the continuous blue rim, without leaving any trace of the start or finish - any ideas?

[Ivo]

19th century French but not sure if Clichy, Baccarat or st Louis. Come and check it against mine next time you're here.

[David E]

Thanks. I knew it was a quality piece so will bring it over for King's Day, unless you're there in mid-March for Club Day?

Any ideas on how they applied the thin rim trail? I honestly cannot spot a break    and someone suggested dipping. It looks too regular for that and it would have to be done before 'waving' the rim, but I suppose it could be an enamel application. It is similar Loetz Tango, which may have used a similar technique – but I'm not suggesting this is Tango BTW!

[glassobsessed]

Trailed on and then heated to hide any overlap?

John

[David E]

That could be it - fire-polished, essentially.

[flying free]

can you do another pic?  can you hold it up to daylight and photograph it through one layer only (ie. not from the front of the vase, but from the top through only one side/layer of the glass with daylight showing through from behind, so the glass shows it's translucency). 
That might, if it is clear, show the type of opaline it is. 
If it is French you might see lots of little fine grainy bits in it - I can't explain what I see but it's different to that seen on Bohemian opaline glass of that period which seems to be to be very smooth when looked through with light coming through, no fine grainy bits.  (btw please don't quote me on that, it's just my personal observation based on no ratified research

I'm a bit quizzical about the snapped off pontil mark.  Is the foot trumpet shaped with the underneath indenting upwards towards where it was applied?
Or is the base flat with the snapped off pontil mark in the centre?  it's very difficult to tell on your pic.  I wouldn't have expected to see a snapped off pontil mark on a French piece but I have really seen very few in real life so that's not a very good indicator.

I also wouldn't have thought Italian or Bohemian - the glass and the style of the rim and the shape don't seem right for Italian somehow, the style/shape  doesn't sit right with me for Bohemian (too slim and feminine looking although the rim shape and trailing does look right).

The rim of the foot is also fire polished is it?


Ivo, what about Belgian?  what do you think? 
I'm not arguing with you, but it's interesting about Baccarat - I wouldn't have thought Baccarat as a first thought just because, well, just because.  Can't explain why - maybe the blue?  I know you have seen many many many more pieces than I in real life though.  Did Baccarat use this dark blue? Perhaps if French I would have thought St Louis first and then Clichy as the second consideration- again, just thoughts really.

m

[Ivo]

I'm the man of sweeping statements but I leave the identifying detail to you because you're SO good at this. I was surprised at the Baccarat museum never having considered them before and then it is easy to just attribute another one to the same lot. I also think it does not really make a lot of difference  anyway....

[flying free]

http://fr.topic-topos.com/louis-joseph-maes

This link appears to show that Clichy used a dark blue.

Ivo, I know what you mean about whichever factory made it doesn't really matter, but sometimes when you own something it is quite nice to find out really 'whodunnit'
I'm questioning a couple of things - the shape of the rim being French as they seem to have tended to go for wavy frills type thing, and also that pontil mark. Would Clichy, Baccarat or St Louis have left a pontil mark like that?

m

[David E]

Thanks M. The pontil mark is the only blemish in an otherwise super vase. It made me wonder whether it was just plain awkward to remove the scar as it was recessed into the base.

To answer your questions: the base is a trumpet shape, and the pontil mark is circular around the inside. The rim appears to be fire polished - very smooth - but this may have been performed before transferring the punty rod to the base so the rim could also be fire polished. Hence the appearance of the pontil mark, but just an assumption of course.

Attached are three more pics, which may help further. The fieriness is not terribly strong and was a real pain to photograph, even with strong sunlight. Yup, no snow in Birmingham ATM... 

Thanks again for your help.

[flying free]

much more informative pics!  thanks

Looks old definitely imho and as Ivo has already said.
I think yes, the pontil scar would be up inside the foot so difficult to finish/polish even if they'd wanted to and also it doesn't 'scratch' any surface so not a problem to leave it.
The opaline is lovely.   But I couldn't really see the clarity of the opaline as there was only a small piece of one layer glass on the photo, to look at.  i.e it is bitty, fine grains in it?(my French pieces tend to have this)  or has good clarity (my Bohemian jug is very clear no bits).
I will try and find some pics of mine to show you so you can look at them.

Harrach was making trailed rim opaline around 1870?
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/60480-re-invention-in-the-art-deco-era-from-h

so it might date from around there.  It's lovely whoever made it though. And also unusual because of the blue trailed rim which is a gorgeous colour.

The fiery stuff is I think dependent on what opacifier they used possibly?  I'm not a chemist but I think that some of mine have less fiery 'ness' because they might have used (tin oxide?) as an opacifier, whereas others perhaps bone ash?
Whatever they used, I think it might be dependent on that.