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Author Topic: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright  (Read 8769 times)

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Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2024, 11:07:55 PM »
Now that you’ve drawn attention to it, the ones without a handle make more sense to me as a potential linen smoother. You could apply pressure by pressing down with your weight through the palm, so would it need to be really heavy? The handle position isn’t very ergonomically positioned for heavy work either, can you imagine how awkward it would be using a modern iron with a vertical handle? Also it doesn’t seem practical to have a convex bottom on a large heavy smoother, if that’s what it was, it would be difficult to control if it wobbled around. I can see a small one with handle might be useful for collars or other details.

Yes I have been thinking about actually using these that way as well, and the pressure as you say and I concur.  I just cannot see it.

Also, I've been searching and searching and from what I read (online, not a researcher, just trying to find information and get a feeling for the times) I can't imagine the masses ironing their linen.  So if anything was used to smooth small articles like collars etc then I suspect they would have been used in big houses for the rich.

I am beginning to wonder if they were used for leather working of some sort. Maybe to do with riding or perhaps shoes?  I don't know - just thinking outloud.

The only mention of early 1700s I could find for use of a glass mortar and pestle (did not say how big the pestle was or what shape) was the mixing of ingredients trying to make Quicksilver ( a dangerous thing to be doing at the time as I know from reading about silvering mirrors). And I think that Alchemist/Chemist was in Amsterdam from what I read (original text 1745 I think).
I don't think he'd have been using a glass pestle anywhere near as big as 10cm across and weighing around a kg I'm guessing for mine. Might be less but it's heavy:

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Philosophical_Transactions_and_Colle/er2zqe1GgAAC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=glass+pestle+1700&pg=PA720&printsec=frontcover




Also mine and some others are black glass.  The Woodchester Glass House seemed to be making transparent glass so I wonder where the glass for the black glass handled 'linen-smoother' came from? 

What made me think about that is there is a some information about the fact that the medieval ones came from Melle in France. I didn't totally understand the research but I think they might have been made with slag from ore processing or something.
 They have been chemically analysed. 
That made me think  hence  looking up the black onion shaped bottles. But again I couldn't find any that really reminded me of my handled object.  Even the lucky find of the one in Bonhams looks green. 

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Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2024, 02:06:04 AM »
Yes I have been ...

Also, I've been searching and searching and from what I read (online, not a researcher, just trying to find information and get a feeling for the times) I can't imagine the masses ironing their linen.  So if anything was used to smooth small articles like collars etc then I suspect they would have been used in big houses for the rich.





See page 25 and 26 and 27 under the Chapter heading 'Population' for a description of life for the population of Kirkcudbright around 1692.
Out-take quote:
'The dress of this period was uncouth and homely, and in general neither men nor women wore shoes in the summer; shirts they scarcely knew.'
 I didn't read that and think 'ooh, great place for a linen smoother'. I'm sure it was no different to anywhere else in the UK. 
However it does state that at that time one noble family, and several persons of independent fortune live in the parish. 

The report was written May 1843 and is a very detailed account of life in Kirkcudbright.  Extremely interesting to read.
https://stataccscot.ed.ac.uk/data/pdfs/account2/StAS.2.4.1.P.Kirkcudbright.Kirkcudbright.pdf

Probably much interesting information I've not picked up on but two things struck me re the linen smoother implement:
I have read elsewhere that wool was loomed?/exported? from Kirkcudbright at one point.
There seems to have been much toing and froing to Liverpool at the period more contemporary to 1843 when the report was written.

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Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #62 on: October 31, 2024, 08:27:29 PM »
Mention of 'calender-glasses' book dated 1816 page 336
- in using them for paper making and refers to their use for linen - does not describe what the 'calender-glasses' look like though (and I think mine would just tear any paper given it's shape):

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Encyclopaedia_Londinensis/HnlPAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=glass+polisher+linen&pg=PA336&printsec=frontcover


Mentioned here in Oct 1805-Jan 1806 page 165 book dated 1806
-for printing ink patterns onto linen.  Says the size must be applied then rubbed with a 'glass-polisher' then the ink pattern is printed onto that area. Does not describe what shape this 'glass-polisher' is though:
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Philosophical_Magazine/jJ1XaArh7-cC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=linen+polisher&pg=RA1-PA165&printsec=frontcover

Neither described the shape of the glass implement and I can't imagine mine being used for either process without damaging the material. I can imagine a flat glass implement being used to do both.

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Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2024, 10:50:24 PM »
Mention of 'calender-glasses' book dated 1816 page 336
- in using them for paper making and refers to their use for linen - does not describe what the 'calender-glasses' look like though (and I think mine would just tear any paper given it's shape):

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Encyclopaedia_Londinensis/HnlPAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=glass+polisher+linen&pg=PA336&printsec=frontcover


Mentioned here in Oct 1805-Jan 1806 page 165 book dated 1806
-for printing ink patterns onto linen.  Says the size must be applied then rubbed with a 'glass-polisher' then the ink pattern is printed onto that area. Does not describe what shape this 'glass-polisher' is though:
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Philosophical_Magazine/jJ1XaArh7-cC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=linen+polisher&pg=RA1-PA165&printsec=frontcover

Neither described the shape of the glass implement and I can't imagine mine being used for either process without damaging the material. I can imagine a flat glass implement being used to do both.


I wonder if the 1816 book when referring to those used for 'linen' meant paper made of linen? 

I wonder also if the book from 1805-1806 was discussing printing ink onto linen for book making?

This is an interesting and detailed explanation of the process of eighteenth century papermaking:
https://blogs.ucl.ac.uk/researchers-in-museums/2017/07/21/adventures-in-eighteenth-century-papermaking/
A blog:
Adventures in Eighteenth-century Papermaking
By Hannah L Wills, on 21 July 2017
UCL

I cannot see that the curved base of the Gribdae implement or mine could be used for this process.

Very long read here but scroll to the end to the Chapter titled 'Finishing' and I can see a stone being used as a glazing implement but nothing resembling the handled Gribdae implement.
https://paper.lib.uiowa.edu/european.php

And here (mid 1700s era)  talk of plates used for glazing paper - nothing remotely so simple as a stone or like a Gribdae implement
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Papermaking_in_Britain_1488_1988/Zn5qCgAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=paper+glazing+hammer&pg=PA62&printsec=frontcover

Perhaps the word 'glasses' meant glazing or glazers rather than an implement of glass?

I don't think there is evidence so far of the handled implements being used in the process of making linen paper.

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Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #64 on: November 05, 2024, 03:27:05 PM »
Scotland in Pagan Times - Joseph Anderson, LL.D. (Keeper of the National Museum of the Antiquaries of Scotland)
The Rhind lectures in archeology for 1881:

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Scotland_in_Pagan_Times/9lgJAAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=norway+linen+smoother&pg=PR13&printsec=frontcover

Pages 36 and 37 give a long description of the lady from Caithness' linen smoother and the linen smoother found in a grave (both non handled)
He says
'Its purpose is demonstrated by the facts recorded by Nicholaysen and Lorange , who state that in Mandal Amt and in several remote districts on the west coast of Norway, the women still use them for giving a gloss to their white linen caps, and generally for getting up a gloss on linen by friction'.


I don't know who Nicholaysen and Lorange were so I'm not sure when their comments were made that he refers to but the implication is that it was fairly contemporary to his writing.  Obviously this was about the ones without handles.

It could be he is referring to Nicholaysen's 'Norske Fornlevninger' Christiania 1866
and
'Samlungen af Norske Oldsager i Bergen's museum', ved A. Lorang. Bergen 1876

which are both mentioned here -  also 1881 Joseph Anderson,'Scotland in Early Christian Times' second series.
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Scotland_in_Early_Christian_Times/kLVNAQAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Nicolaysen+and+Lorange+mandal+amt&printsec=frontcover




There is more information in the smaller text  about his comments on the one from Caithness being remembered and then found in the lady's house, and he more or less says that this brought information to light in living memory but commented on how it demonstrates how quickly use of old implements could be forgotten.

He seems to say hers is 'modern' although it looks just like the viking find one. Perhaps he says modern because it was found in her  house and used in living memory.

He goes on to say 'The placing of this specimen (of the modern type) in the museum has brought to light other three specimens of modern calendaring implements of glass.  They are of larger size and furnished with handles, which are also of glass'.

Therefore this link to the lecture gives a little more detail than before especially since three with handles have appeared.  Presumably the one from Gribdae Farm but perhaps the other two are the ones from the Museum of London?


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Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #65 on: November 05, 2024, 04:21:09 PM »
I have also found the early settler Jamestowne information where they found ten of the handled implements with four being found in what they think was the first well dug there c.
https://historicjamestowne.org/collections/artifacts/linen-smoother/?srsltid=AfmBOorw8xQu9bSU4ezclXM_fsdlQPb40LuBSGiLnGxde8lOk3foYKQX


Of the black handled implements similar in shape and construction to mine, so far I think we have:
1 from Gribdae in the Stewartry Museum
2 (or 1? couldn't find 2 when I looked) in the Museum of London
1 in the Science Museum London (they have it listed as 19th century?)
2 from museum in Wales seen on the Glassmakers site
10 at Jamestowne (dated 1608-1610)  - settlers from England.


1 seen on Worthpoint - linked on this thread
1 - dark green glass Bonhams dated c. 1650
https://www.bonhams.com/auction/25846/lot/792/a-dark-green-glass-linen-smoother-british-circa-1650/

1 x Mine
1 x other on this thread


1 that looks slightly different in shape and colour also Bonhams c.1750
https://www.bonhams.com/auction/25846/the-brookwell-collection-of-smoothing-implements/?page=9

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Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #66 on: November 05, 2024, 05:29:15 PM »
I found the two pictured  in the Museum of London - dated c.1700 however they seem to have  many more but no pictures. Apparently 28 items but some are listed as handles and some as heads. They all seem to be quite early on their dating but no pictures to compare apart from two and one broken one with part handle.






for the 10 linen smoothers found at Jamestowne (4 discarded in what I think was referred to as the First Well)

there were not that many women who made it to Jamestowne (note- was linen glossing solely womens' work?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jamestown_colonists

More than ten women ( I lost count ) were on the various arrivals of boats.  Many appear to be the wives of the men.  I could see a few maidservants but I don't think 10.
That's quite a lot of linen smoothers.  Perhaps each wife carried her own? That's if they were all contemporary to the settlers rather than later items discarded at the site.

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Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #67 on: November 05, 2024, 07:20:26 PM »



for the 10 linen smoothers found at Jamestowne (4 discarded in what I think was referred to as the First Well)

there were not that many women who made it to Jamestowne (note- was linen glossing solely womens' work?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jamestown_colonists

More than ten women ( I lost count ) were on the various arrivals of boats.  Many appear to be the wives of the men.  I could see a few maidservants but I don't think 10.
That's quite a lot of linen smoothers.  Perhaps each wife carried her own? That's if they were all contemporary to the settlers rather than later items discarded at the site.


I've tried to count up again and there were more than 10 women who arrived in total but not that many more.  Perhaps 5 listed as servant.

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Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #68 on: November 05, 2024, 07:29:49 PM »
1805 discussion on glossing linen. - The Nature of Things by John Mason Good
Translation of latin poem
page 158 - talks about glossing linen and using presses.  No mention of a glass implement when referring to the past or the present.

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Nature_of_Things/yYjcEGiBLcIC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=glossing+linen&pg=PA158&printsec=frontcover

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Re: Linen Smoother 1840 or 16th / 17th century - Gribdae Farm Kirkudbright
« Reply #69 on: November 05, 2024, 08:58:28 PM »
1883

Journal of the British Archaeological Association
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Journal_of_the_British_Archaeologica/oeRAgKIO-qYC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=illustrated+archaeologist+linen+smoother&pg=PA332&printsec=frontcover

Page 332 - a few pages earlier mentions Joseph Anderson's Rhind lectures re the linen smoother with no handle found in viking graves but also says:
'Similar implements were in use in Scotland ... smoothing linen; and they were employed also in the straw-plaiting industry in Bedfordshire for flattening the plaits'.


Straw plaiting info - from 1725:
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_World_s_Commercial_Products/tqMm7FPJyEgC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=straw-plaiting+industry+flattening+plaits&pg=PA150&printsec=frontcover
page 150

1844 description of using hot iron for flattening seams in straw hats - page 161:
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Useful_Arts_Employed_in_the_Producti/pTtkAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=smoothing+flat+plaits+straw&pg=PA161&printsec=frontcover

Here from 1826 page 428 the flattening of plaits is described as being done with a 'small hand mill':
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/An_Account_of_the_Results_of_Experiments/iC_itEA32qkC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=straw+plait+flattening&pg=PA428&printsec=frontcover

Here from 1830  page 231 - though it mentions using a bone or ivory polisher:
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Gill_s_technological_afterw_Gill_s_scien/n0YEAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=straw+plait+flattening&pg=PA231&printsec=frontcover

Flattening a straw by 'rubbing it forcibly with a polisher on its bright side' and 'whilst it is laid upon a strong and smooth plank of apple tree':
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Gill_s_technological_afterw_Gill_s_scien/n0YEAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=straw+plait+flattening&pg=PA231&printsec=frontcover
It does however go on to talk about flattening plaits.


Flat plaits here:
https://www.strawcraftsmen.co.uk/project10.php

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