Topic: Ruby wineglass (posted for Martyn1)

[Anne]

Martyn is still having problems posting from his phone, so he has asked me to post this query on his behalf. Can anyone help with an ID or more info about this wine glasse please?

Good morning
This little glass is ruby red coloured with simple vine engraving.
It measures
Ht 9.3cm
Bowl opening 4.9cm
Foot 4.7cm
Snapped pontil
Any ideas on probable date for this one?
Many thanks

[Paul S.]

go on, you're just saying all that  -  bet all these glasses are really yours Anne

Hi Martyn   -   This is an example of either staining or flashing  -  the former was for the better off folk - the ruby-staining/coating (invented by Friedrich Egermann c. 1832, apparently), was thicker than the cheaper flashed versions.                So it depends on how thick the red overlay is, as to which of these methods apply to the piece here, although often the quality of the engraving will help to indicate which.
This example is Continental I'm sure since the scar under the foot is circular in appearance, and hollow pontil rods were not used in this country as a general rule in the C19.
Probably from Bohemia, but as to date then not easy  -  it's predictable to say second half Victorian period, but I recall Ivo saying - and I've no reason to doubt his wisdom  -  such pieces were made prolifically in the C20 too.
I wonder what they drank from these glasses - white wine perhaps.                    Nice little glass  -  in fact I don't have an example.

What do others think about a suitable date?

[Ekimp]

Hi, the crude engraving of vines, and leaves that look more like clouds, look very similar to the engraving you see on the dip moulded decanters (some were also flashed/stained) that were said to come from Newcastle, but now thought to be 1860s Bohemia. Might be worth a look.

[Paul S.]

I've read the story of the decanters related to this misinterpreted Newcastle origin, but reading Andy McConnell he appears to be saying that it was later believed they may have originated in Holland  -  am I reading about the wrong things
I didn't know there were drinking glasses following the same format - must be in a book I don't have - any idea of a source on this one?

[Ekimp]

On page 211 of McConnell (I invested), the ruby flashed decanter #3 has the cloud engraving and he says 1860, probably Bohemia for that one. I must admit I haven’t waded through all his text, I like pictures. I thought the glass in this tread might share an origin given the similarity of engraving.

On the same page, the similar decanter #1 is shown with a matching glass that looks very similar to the one in this thread but decanter and glass are engraved with oak leaves. 1860 but probably Denmark for that one. The #1 decanter and glass are similar to the ones in this thread: http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,54497.20.html

[Martyn1]

Many thanks everyone.  I have a small collection of plain and engraved glasses without the colouring but very similar to this one.   They are very similar to the ones shown in the links above.  So 1860s is a viable date for these? I have seen a near identical glass being sold  as c1800. Is this simply a dealer trying to make the glass more attractive to a prospective buyer or are there other types?

Many thanks again

[Paul S.]

no idea   -  wheel engraving has been around for a long time, certainly it started long before 1800, and since the grape and vine is probably one of the most popular subjects on utility type wares, then no particular reason to doubt the dealer's suggestion of date.
If you look in Bickerton there are pieces from c. 1730 showing fruiting vine wheel decoration, but his glasses are high end pieces usually  -  Tim Mills book shows examples of wheel engraving on rummers c. 1780.

A problem with engraving to be aware of is that not always easy to be sure whether the work is contemporary with the date of the glass, or perhaps made later.            Generally though if you can date a glass to a given period then the engraving will probably be of a similar date.

I'm still of the opinion the piece here is an example of flashing and originated in Bohemia, but am unsure of the date.               The C19 was the period for the manufacture of masses of similarly coloured and engraved/decorated glass, so I suppose taking a punt then by the law of averages you could be forgiven for saying this one dates to the second half of the C19, but I wouldn't put my shirt on it.

[Martyn1]

Many thanks Paul.  I have another small glass which I would like to post but unfortunately cannot upload the images.  I have tried a variety of things to get the images to upload but with no success.  I think that it is also continental but was suggested to date to late 18th early 19th century.  It is different to these but with a similar pontil scar.  I don't want to keep asking Anne so do you have any suggestions as to how I can upload images? I have tried the help page suggestions but nothing works. I only have a mobile at the moment.

[Paul S.]

I think Anne is a very understanding lady  -  I think Anne will not object to helping one more time, so fingers crossed.

taking pix with a phone is obviously not the best source of quality - but I assume that's not where the problem occurs  -  is it that you can't upload pix from the phone to your hard drive on the pc?            If you can get them to your photo library on the pc, is it that you can't then send them to the Board?

Am off out now for a very long walk, but without the added interest of charity shops - I so miss these shops - roll on the unlocking of the lockdown.

[Martyn1]

 Thanks Paul

Enjoy your walk.  I also spend a load of time in charity shops and have found a few nice pieces.  I will be doing my long walk tomorrow.  I will probably post a different glass as I'm fairly sure that the one I mentioned is likely a similar age to the ruby one and I will wait on that one.  My problem is that my computer is not working properly and I can't compress the file sizes of the pictures with my phone.