Topic: Frosted decanter.

[flying free]

The last pic looks like acid etching to me but I see what you mean re the striations on the rest of it.

In my mind's eye, unless they discovered a difficulty with cutting and polishing post etching, then it would make sense as quicker, to etch the entire thing first then cut the pattern.  Saves time and money on wages therefore.

m

[Paul S.]

I've had this cut pattern before, though now can't remember whose it was.     Attractive with this arch enclosing leaves type arrangement.

brain now working, I think,   .....  possibly a Percival Vickers design from 6th March 1868  -  comes in frosted and plain and Thompson describes it as "one of the early leaf patterns"  .....   could be Rd. 217227.         Of course, someone else may have simply copied the original design  -  Neil will know better than me.

[Ekimp]

Thanks Flying free, it’s not the best picture as there is some distortion as it was a wide angle lens (clipped to a tablet) and it’s a bit out of focus but was difficult to show. I’m sure it’s not acid etching, my thinking with the last photo is that the scratches kind of feather out, whereas if it was acid etched presumably there would be a sharp cutoff where the acid met the resist or stopped. Also, can’t see how the area in the corner of the foot would be missed (photo 3) if using acid. The scratches going around the bowl look more obvious in the flesh.

Yes, and if they etched it first, maybe that made marking out the cutting easier too (unless it was done by machine).

Yes Paul, a nice little bowl, like a comport without the stem. I did think it’s a sort of similar design to the frosted vase from Webb Richardson on page 49 of Hajdamach. I’ll have a look for the Percival Vickers design, thanks. I had assumed it wouldn’t be distinctive enough to pin down.

Should of said, it’s only 135mm or 5.25 inches diameter.

[Paul S.]

Here is 217227 - see what you think.       Is it possible to have a comport without stem  -  or is it simply a small shallow bowl

[Ekimp]

I thought you might say it’s ‘compote’...You could break the stem off

Thanks for the picture. It is similar but, who knows? Maybe just following a fashion. I only paid my 75p for the frosting 

[flying free]

can we see a clear picture of the star cut base please?  How many points does it have?

Nice bowl but the greek key doesn't match your decanter unfortunately :
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124557934669?hash=item1d003b404d:g:6ksAAOSwMxBgGuBN

[Ekimp]

That’s a nice classy looking bowl, they don’t say how they arrived at Baccarat , it also has a ground rim, mine is fire polished. Number of points of the star the same though - 32.

[flying free]

The seller gives no reference for it being Baccarat  . Whoever made it though it's a nicely made and designed bowl.  The rim is cut and bevelled and polished.

On a separate note, my Baccarat bowl has a 32 point star base and also a cut, bevelled and polished rim. The Saint-Louis bowl rim is fire-polished and has a 36 point star cut on the base of a raised foot.




I would think any matt effect would be done before the cutting .. if it was subsequently cut.  It could be that the whole pattern was made with some kind of acid resist?

I think Cagney's description of the matt effect is interesting - from post

'One 19th century account of the process involved with grinding on glass for frosted effect. Although it concerns shades/ fonts, I see no reason it could not apply to your decanter as well.

From  THE SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN VOL. VIII, no. 5 [ January 31, 1863 ]
  " Globes for lamps are ground dull on the surface [to tone the light] by being placed on a lathe, and made to revolve while a pad containing sand and water is held against them'

Quoted and footnoted in  OIL LAMPS II by Catherine M.V. Thuro.
She also mentions another source from the 1870s described a brush rather than a pad used with sand.'

[Ekimp]

You are probably right regarding which process came first on my bowl (you can see wheel marks in the cutting). I’m sure this modernish Zajecar pressed glass bowl used a similar mechanical frosting technique as the final process:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Kristal-Zajecar-Bowl-made-in-YUGOSLAVIA-Crystal-Frosted-Dish-/174317179660
In the last three photos of the listing you can zoom in and see the scratches and where the abrasive has knocked off fleabite chips at the edges of the moulded ‘cutting’.

In my shallow bowl, I think they also used the abrasive to make the foot’s sides more cylindrical...as cmog said, the Lathe Cutting process was used to ‘polish it, modify the profile, or cut it’

Yes. Cagney’s comments were useful as they show it was a method used in production and not something I just made up also in conjunction with the cmog dictionary entry for Lathe Cutting.

[flying free]

sorry but can we see a clear photo of the foot of the decanter please?
I can see a star cut but it looks as though it has wider leaves at the NSEW compass points and then narrower ones in between?
Just curious