Topic: Uranium Glass Goblet

[flying free]

Yes m it does appear to be a faceted hexagon rather than rounded but maybe there were variations. Neil, I make the density only 2.4g/cc.

There may have been variations however the foot is also different. Therefore on the current evidence (1840 and 1841 Launay Hautin) I don't think we could say it's a definite match for a St Louis or Baccarat piece. As far as I can see (anecdotal evidence admittedly) on the pieces I've looked at over the years the patterns in Launay Hautin were extremely accurate.
m

[neilh]

I have several plain flint examples from Launay Hautin (Baccarat / St. Louis) and they are all around 3.2g/cc. Alas I don't know the colour or uranium profiles, but I understood that the sablee items in that catalogue were no longer made after the early 1840s, which would give them all a quite high density. Nev's reading is suggesting a late 19th century / early 20th century pressing of a pattern first produced around 1840-50. I couldn't rule out Molineaux Webb really, even though it's not in their abbreviated 1870 catalogue. I have items with the same lower half (egg cup) and same upper half (honey) - just not together as a goblet!

[flying free]

I have several plain flint examples from Launay Hautin (Baccarat / St. Louis) and they are all around 3.2g/cc. Alas I don't know the colour or uranium profiles, but I understood that the sablee items in that catalogue were no longer made after the early 1840s, which would give them all a quite high density. Nev's reading is suggesting a late 19th century / early 20th century pressing of a pattern first produced around 1840-50. I couldn't rule out Molineaux Webb really, even though it's not in their abbreviated 1870 catalogue. I have items with the same lower half (egg cup) and same upper half (honey) - just not together as a goblet!

I know nothing about densities but I was wondering if it might be from one of the Bohemian makers?  I struggle to translate some of the Pressglas-Korrespondenz articles so  don't know whether they were making pressed glass later in the century or whether it stopped mid century mostly.
I wonder about a Russian maker.  There were copies of goblets made late 19th in Russia in that colour uranium glass and some were not marked under the foot.  And iirc the foot was slightly different to the Launay Hautin pieces. I don't know about the 'hips' I'd need to have a look later and see if I can find any examples.

[Ivo]

Looks very much like a Ranftbecher from Bohemia, ca. 1840. Just google Ranftbecher Uranglas to see other examples.

[flying free]

it does Ivo, however I've been this route before.  The design is very much of the era but was copied resurrected  later on in the 19th. And I can't remember what I've read in Pressglas-Korrespondenz about pressed glass in Bohemia and timeframe. 

Adding further, I'm not sure about Russian glass as an option.  I can't remember seeing this shape tumbler only goblets. 

[flying free]

I have several plain flint examples from Launay Hautin (Baccarat / St. Louis) and they are all around 3.2g/cc. Alas I don't know the colour or uranium profiles, but I understood that the sablee items in that catalogue were no longer made after the early 1840s, which would give them all a quite high density. Nev's reading is suggesting a late 19th century / early 20th century pressing of a pattern first produced around 1840-50. I couldn't rule out Molineaux Webb really, even though it's not in their abbreviated 1870 catalogue. I have items with the same lower half (egg cup) and same upper half (honey) - just not together as a goblet!

Neil what do you mean by sablee please? are they the frilly decorative items with ornate rocailles etc? 
I have one opalescent item which I believe is Saint Louis and dates to 1830s but wouldn't know how to measure density unfortunately.

[NevB]

There's another similar St. louis one shown here, the No.4. It's not easy to see but I think it has the rings around the centre with the rounded facets below and a flat faceted hexagonal foot.

https://cmog.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/discovery/delivery/01CORNING_INST:01CORNING_INST/1257263480004126

I've searched for Bohemian versions like the Ranftbecher before under what I would call "Biedermeier" style but couldn't find anything similar. 

[flying free]

That's a much better match in proportional size and also the design of the entire body.  From the later 1872 catalogues.
I'm covering myself and being picky by saying I'm a bit unsure about the foot.  The foot of yours graduates from the stem and the top is curved down onto the base.  The foot on that one looks as though is has a flat side around the height of the foot where it touches the base.

You could search through Pressglas-korrespondenz to see if there are other Saint Louis items/other makers either in footed goblets or tumblers (there are lots of both in PK) which have the foot like yours to see if it's just a perspective issue.


There's a bit of discussion here about the design differences on a similar lensed goblet:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,71837.msg400049.html#msg400049

[flying free]

I have several plain flint examples from Launay Hautin (Baccarat / St. Louis) and they are all around 3.2g/cc. Alas I don't know the colour or uranium profiles, but I understood that the sablee items in that catalogue were no longer made after the early 1840s, which would give them all a quite high density. Nev's reading is suggesting a late 19th century / early 20th century pressing of a pattern first produced around 1840-50. I couldn't rule out Molineaux Webb really, even though it's not in their abbreviated 1870 catalogue. I have items with the same lower half (egg cup) and same upper half (honey) - just not together as a goblet!

With regard to the sablee items in that catalogue not being made after 1840 mentioned by Neil in quote above,  just a note to beware possible similar 20th century items - see information on this collectors item here:
Item 0.00.1 uranium glass becher with intricate decoration

http://www.pressglas.de/Pressglas_1840-1940/Nullserie_start/Nullserie_1/nullserie_1.html

Quoting from the author using google translate:
'Shape and decoration: Cylindrical, slightly indented at the base. Not very wide rim. Wall: foliage, rocailles and palmettes on a grained ground (repeated four times). An eight-fold foot with palmettes surrounds the body like a cuff. Underside: Eight-fold meander made of parallel grooves on the outside; 8 concentric grooves in the center.
The sablé ground on the base between the palmettes is barely recognizable.
In the sights of the pressed glass correspondence from the beginning. (p. P-K 98/1 (3 contributions); 98/2 (2 contributions); 99/2 ("Addendum")). At first glance, it appears to be an early product from St. Louis - see fig. Launay Hautin (Berlin example) planche 54 "No. 1887 St. L (2) [water glass], Gobelet cylindrique m. sablée rocaille". Only the upper tendrils to the right and left of the central palmette appear different. A second look - at the underside - is decisive: the original has the pseudo-demolition mark in the center surrounded by a narrow ring of pointed stones.
The frequent occurrence of this cup in recent decades at antique markets and auctions - in different colors and (albeit slightly) different sizes, occasionally with a lid - suggests a reproduction, possibly from the second half of the 20th century, similar to the footed cup no. 0.21 in this collection.'

And another interesting story here:
https://pressglas-korrespondenz.de/aktuelles/pdf/pk-2004-2w-chiarenza-teller-wedding.pdf

[flying free]

see also 5.062.1 where for example Villeroy & Boch seem to have used a similar foot to that on your goblet.  That said, I don't know if Villeroy & Boch used that design of your goblet or whether they used uranium glass:

http://www.pressglas.de/Pressglas_1840-1940/Sammlung/Becher_Einfuehrung/B/Fussbecher_2/fussbecher_2.html

It might be worth searching for the two Villeroy & Boch musterbuche that are mentioned in that link?  Just in case.

m