Topic: Grey pigeon paperweight?

[inca]

Has anyone any ideas on how we can reduce the three potential manufacturers down to one?   I still prefer Formia because of the cut fan tail, but it would be pleasing to have rather more evidence to upgrade the attribution from "possibly Formia".
Bernard C. 

Bernard, maybe we should try and date your pigeon. It certainly doesn't look like something Formia would make today.
If it for instance was made in the 1970's .... well, what type of birds did Formia make then? Anyone know?

I have an owl which I believe is Formia, it has no inscription/label. I have earlier considered V. Nason but I now lean towards Formia. I include a picture for you, you can also have a look in Formia's catalogue which shows a similar owl:
http://www.formiaglass.it/formia/zoo/Civette.pdf

[inca]

I include some more pictures for you ...... 

[inca]

I had one of the gray pieces that was in a diamond quilt pattern. I found some similar birds online that had a Barovier& Toso label. If that label was correct, then BT may have also done gray pieces.

Now that is very interesting information!
Do you know of a site where we can see pictures of these birds?

Thanks!

[TxSilver]

Ingela, I'm attaching a couple of pictures of one bird of the pair that I had. The birds have been a mystery to me. They have teal green in the glass around the gray middle. Leslie Pina shows birds like these on pg 95 of her book Fifties Glass. She writes they are possibly Seguso, but I don't think that they are. Another pair of this design was sold on eBay about two years ago. They had a partial green label that the seller said was Barovier & Toso, but I was not sure because the label was not in good shape. Maybe someone in the group will recognize the birds.

[Bernard C]

...   I still prefer Formia because of the cut fan tail   ...

Compare the cut tail with this recently completed eBay auction labelled Formia bird.   You can see why I still prefer Formia.

...   In my statement, I was referring to the eyes being slightly recessed, instead of deeply recessed. Your bird seems to have eyes that are rather deeply recessed -- not a characteristic I associate with Formia.   ...

Anita — I thought I had provided a possible explanation for the deeply recessed eyes — that punching the casing through the opaque core was bound to make the eyes deeply recessed, or, to put it another way, the depth was a function of the process used.   Is there no merit in this?

Finally, I've been trying to figure out how the core was made.   Is it possible to have a hybrid rib and controlled bubble mould, with one transforming into the other as you get lower down?   I've found no evidence of such brass or iron pattern moulds being made on Murano, although some of the larger glassworks make their own wooden shape moulds, as evidenced by the hardwood logs soaking in water at the back of some.   So, as usual, the rapid spread of this style to several glassworks can be reasonably confidently attributed to supplier reps.  

Bernard C.  

[inca]

Bernard, when I look at the head (eyes+beak) of your pigeon/dove, then I would say that this could very well be Marcolin.
Looking at the grey effect, then I would say that this could be Marcolin or V. Nason.
The fan tail? Well, that suggests Formia.
I haven't seen the exact 'fan tail' in any of Marcolin's or V. Nason's birds but then I haven't seen everything made by Marcolin or V. Nason.

Regarding the eyes, from what I can see Formia now often use applied eyes but how about for instance 30 years ago? How did Formia's birds look then? If your pigeon/dove was made ?years ago (1970's?) then it does not give a correct comparison to look at Formia's birds of today.
And what about the colour of the dark inner core?
There are so many things to compare, and depending on when the item was made it can be very difficult to determine who made a certain object. Objects made in the 1970's does not look the same as the ones made today!
And the grey effect? When did Formia start using this grey effect?

Bernard, if you ever decide to sell your mystery bird ..... please let me know!

I included a picture of a dove in "post #20", here is another dove from Marcolin for comparison.

[inca]

Here is a bird with a similar fan tail but I hesitate to say that this is Formia because of the beak and the shape of the applied eyes.
I have never seen this type of beak/shape of applied eyes in any of Formia's birds!

Any suggestions who made this bird?

[inca]

Ingela, I'm attaching a couple of pictures of one bird of the pair that I had. The birds have been a mystery to me. They have teal green in the glass around the gray middle. Leslie Pina shows birds like these on pg 95 of her book Fifties Glass. She writes they are possibly Seguso, but I don't think that they are. Another pair of this design was sold on eBay about two years ago. They had a partial green label that the seller said was Barovier & Toso, but I was not sure because the label was not in good shape. Maybe someone in the group will recognize the birds.

Thanks for the pictures. Now that was quite interesting to see!

What is the colour of the inner core of your bird? Teal green?


Marcolin used very early on, coloured glass in the grey effect. The swan was made early 1960's.

Here's an owl with a similar grey/black effect, made early 1980's.

[TxSilver]

Thanks for the pictures. Now that was quite interesting to see!

What is the colour of the inner core of your bird? Teal green?

The core is charcoal gray. The pattern appears to have been formed using a template (or form) in a pattern that expands to diamond quilt bullicante on bottom. Barovier & Toso used diamond quilt forms in making some of their d'oro bullicante bowls... but then I imagine many companies used them. The teal color is like a wash, instead of a layer, around the core.

The body of Bernard's bird is very Formia-like, but I still have doubts about the head. Maybe it is an earlier piece of theirs. I looked around a bit today, but came up with nothing new. I don't know if Marcolin did any pieces that has the fan tail like Bernard's bird does. All of the Marcolin pieces I've seen have folded tails.

[Bernard C]

...   Bernard, if you ever decide to sell your mystery bird ..... please let me know!   ...

I can't — it's not mine to sell.  It was a birthday present to my OH, Janet, arising from a family joke about a pigeon that follows us and arrives first whenever we go on holiday, and is known as "That bl**dy pidgeon", spelt the same way as all the "Please do not feed the pidgeons" notices on Murano.   It's only the second really good piece of glass I've given her, the other being a lovely perfume atomiser made by the Walsh team at either the Walsh or the Tudor factory.   It was accompanied by a kilo of finest Saudi Arabian dates, only small, but delicious.   Isn't it strange how the best presents cost so little!

Bernard C.