Topic: date cane with an I in the middle?

[josordoni]

I am thinking of bidding for a faceted ( 5 puntys to the sides, one on the top) millefiore weight with a date cane for 1974 with an I in it, the base has a slightly concave raised disc in the centre, with curved outer edges, rather like a Monart vase if that makes sense?  

Is this likely to be a Monart paperweight?  It is in a group of Strathearn weights, so I guess it might be another Scottish one?

thanks for any help

[Riki]

Hi Lynne,
It sounds like a Whitefriars weight date cane, the i in the middle is supposed to represent a friar, white friars was bought in 1982 by Caithness glass who continue the name with a range of Whitefriars paperweights, mainly lampwork  flowers using the whitefriars date cane.
Best of luck with the bidding

[josordoni]

Thanks so much Riki, I have the Charlton Caithness book, so hopefully the Whitefriars will be in there and I can check them out.  I didn't realise the backs on them were so lumpy!

[Riki]

Lynne, I fear I may have slightly misadvised you, your description of a lumpty base with pontil sounds very like a "fake" Whitefriars,  sorry
 I have a "funny" one with a date cane for 1984 which sounds very similar.
 It has a pontil which extends below the base and causes it to sit lopsided, the actual millefiore also has a kick upwards at one side.
 It is in a box but I will try to find it and post photos of it tonight.

[mjr]

The base that you describe is standard Whitefriars. They are made with the central base part containing the colour and the canes being covered with the main glass gather and treated in such a way that on the base they seem like two distinct bits - a central piece with a bulging outer rim. Plus the pontil is then ground out leaving a one inch wide round dish in the centre. The 1974 date indicates pre Caithness. It will not be in Charltons guide as they only cover the Caithness period.

See sweetbriars http://www.sweetbriar.co.uk/weightlist.php?maker=Whitefriars or Bob Halls http://www.bobhallpaperweights.com/paperweights.html?cat=2 sites for samples - they both have 5 & 1 facetted concentrics to compare

[mjr]

Or here's one of mine

http://i1.tinypic.com/nmds0m.jpg

[Riki]

Hi again Lynne,
Here is a photo of a real Whitefriars date cane, notice that it is crisp and clear

 http://i1.tinypic.com/nmdow7.jpg
 and a photo of a real base,

 http://i1.tinypic.com/nmds0y.jpg

This is the dubious one note that the date cane is fuzzy and not so well made

 http://i1.tinypic.com/nmdt13.jpg
 http://i1.tinypic.com/nmdtfa.jpg

and this is the base

 http://i1.tinypic.com/nmdv9w.jpg

Ain't paperweights fun :twisted:
I hope you can manage to squeeze some help from this. :wink:

[Frank]

First I heard of fake Whitefriars weights, not surprised but do tell more.

[Riki]

I am possibly be overstating the facts, it came along with a small lot of weights bought at auction and I know nothing of its history,it may have been a trial,appretice or perhaps a backdoor piece when the canes etc transered to Caithness but it is not of great quality,and not at all what you would expect from a Whitefriars weight. :?

 I did see an identical one on Ebay around a year ago and was tempted to bid    
so there is more than one out there, it's interesting to have but one of these is probably enough in any collection.

[ALLAN]

Hi,
   This is the first time I have seen a fake Whitefriar as well.When I joined Caithness after Jay Glass went bust Colin Terris told me that they had not done anything with the Whitefriars name since they bought it.I certainly do not remember seeing any samples around the glasshouse.The date cane is so bad that I seriously doubt if it was made at Caithness;we took great care to follow the style of the original cane designs,Colin insisted on it.
   On the subject of bases,the original Whitefriars were made by making the base then picking up the millefiori then forming that into a button of glass onto which a gather of crystal would be dropped from a helper.The maker would then shape the crystal into the finished paperweight,this would leave the tell-tale ridge underneath the weight between the base and top crystal.I recently had the pleasure of watching Ray Annenberg do this at Perth for us.