Topic: Georgian decanter copy?

[flying free]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/banden/5650625635/lightbox/
I know nothing about these things but I came across this glass trying to find something else.
It seems to have a similar engraved decoration to your decanter.  It's apparently Norwegian from Gjorvik glassverk but I don't know when it would date to.  Looks very old to me (the glass).

Here is a decanter apparently with similar decoration to yours but is not the same as it has facets I think on the bottom half.
Just wondering if yours is a maybe younger version from Gjorvik?
http://www.lundsrudauksjon.no/?auksjon=1-april-2013
m

[bat20]

Thanks ff,the shape and decoration seem spot on so that has opened up a new line of enquiry for sure,at first glance the glass works started about 1807,thanks again,now where is my Norwegian dictionary?

[flying free]

http://www.mfordcreech.com/George_III_Half-Pint_Decanter_&_4_Glasses_Oak_Leaves_&_Acorns.htm

this is your link to the one you referenced earlier.
Sorry, I can't help anymore as I have no knowledge of things like this at all. 
All I can observe is that there is some similarity between the decoration of the oak leaves and acorns on both linked pieces and yours but I've no idea if this was a widespread style of decoration at a particular time for example.
Also no idea if either attribution is correct. 
m

[Paul S.]

Some additional information regarding m's link showing the George III half pint decanter .........

Barrington Haynes book - to which reference is made for provenance and for dating pieces which are accompanied by a 'press-molded stopper somewhat pagoda-like' - was written originally some sixty odd years ago.         Haynes wrote that these decanters seem to have been made in Scotland or (possibly) Tyneside, and were decorated variously with crude engraving, bright foral bands of paintwork, gilding and flashing, and he does give the pagoda description to some of the press-moulded stoppers. 

Andy McConnell's 'Decanter Book'- published less than ten years ago, also discusses these particular bottles - which in the trade appear to have been called 'Newcastle decanters'.       Painted, flashed and crudely engraved bottles are shown in McConnell (including pieces with oak leaves), and the examples include either pressed 'pagoda' or mushroom stoppers only.
McConnell also quotes the Barrington Haynes illustration (whose pictures were all b. and w.) although the bottle in question was a plychromed enamel version.

However, the point about all this is that opinions regarding origin appear to have changed in the last half century and according to McConnell these things were made "across Europe, probably excepting Britain" - the vernacular name deriving possibly because they were imported through the port of Newcastle-upon-Tyne.
McConnell quotes origins as possibly Bohemia (flashed bottles) and Spain for plychrome examples.         Denmark is also given as a source.

Dates are quoted as c. 1830 - 1840, rather than the slightly earlier period mentioned by Haynes.

 

[flying free]

Thanks Paul.
Just to add it seems from this link that Gjøvik glassworks ran from 1807 to 1843.
Google do a translate link for the site link I've given below:
From what I understand, it seems they were running early 19th century Glassworks on 18th century principles and so when there was an influx of better glass from other countries they couldn't keep up - that seems to be the gist of it but I am open to correction
http://www.gjoevik-glassverk.no/om_oss/gjovik_glassverks_historie/

So it seems those dates fit in with the dates Paul has given for the time period these decanters are estimated to have been produced, and there are links to attributed pieces of glass from Gjovik that have engraving some similarities with OP's decanter as well as some shape similarities (but are not identical as OP's does not have facet cuts on the bottom of the decanter).
However, I suppose it doesn't mean that similar decanters weren't produced elsewhere and with similar decoration. 

m

[flying free]

there is an online digital glass museum with Norwegian glass on it.  Unfortunately I find it very difficult to understand what information they are giving and particularly it seems to me there is no specific dating on most of the pieces I've looked at.
However I did find this glass which has the similar oak and acorn engraving to your decanter.
I think it says it was produced in the 1800's but I think that's just a broad brushstrokes as they probably don't have specific evidence to date it any more precisely.
http://www.digitaltmuseum.no/things/drikkeglass/MH-B/UB-00826
So it's possible that your decanter might have originated in Norway.  Paul I may not have read what you said properly so I apologise, but did the McConnell book specify countries particularly for the pieces with the oak and acorn decoration or was it a 'generic' based on the shape of the decanter?
I don't think I can help any more.  Perhaps the next steps might be to see if this engraved decoration was specific to one country e.g Norway?
m

[Paul S.]

just to add m, that I was referring to the decanter in your link only, and not to the original piece in this post.

The book uses the unusual press-moulded stopper, general shape of the bottle. and crudely engraved oak leaves as a basis to include them in the overall group of examples ascribed to non-British factories  -  there isn't a particular origin given for those pieces with the oak leaves.
Known examples of British wheel engraving of oak leaves appears to show the decoaration to be of a far higher quality, usually.

I don't know if wheel engraving of oak leaves did in fact continue throughout the C19, as stated in the link.     I'm still of the opinion that the original piece in this thread is later in the C19, and not British - it has no real similarity to the linked decanters you's shown, other than the crude oak leaf decoration  -  but I could well be wrong.

Decanters aren't really my thing either, so regret I'm unable to add further reliable information.

[bat20]

Hei ,thank s for all the help and even if it doesn't turn out to be from Norway I've learnt alot. The Gjovik glass works seems to have run from 1807 to 1843 with it's heyday being 1810 to 1817 making decanters and glasses in clear and blue glass, can't make all of the translations out ,but it seems they shut down in 1819 opened again and stuttering on until 1843,they did have a engraving workshop when they opened.I'm really not sure to the origins of this decanter  but feel there 're enough similarities to send a photo maybe to the modern glassworks started recently in Gjovik,1990's if I've got the translation right,thanks again everyone much appreciated..

[flying free]

that sounds like a good idea

Meanwhile I also found this thread for you
http://precisensan.com/antikforum/showthread.php?35016-GJ%D8VIK-EMPIR-GLASS-Eller-hva

There are a number of pieces on there with similar engraved oak and acorns.
Perhaps the origination of the decanter and the glasses in the link you first gave at least, is Gjovik?

Although I suppose, if that was the case, then perhaps the decanter books that Paul has quoted would have known about that already.

Perhaps the engraved oak leaves and acorns was produced by a number of companies in various countries?

It would be helpful if you could put some more pictures on showing the base of your decanter clearly, showing any wear on the base and whether or not the base is indented at all.
Also one with the decanter the right way up on a plain clear white background
If you do get a reply please would you let us know what they say?
Many thanks
m

[bat20]

Thanks for the extra info m and here are some more photos,it's not easy to see the wear on the photo's ,there is wear though and it feels rough similar to when you drag a nail over a folded foot..