Topic: Are there too many glass fairs in the UK?

[Frank]

I cannot see how a glass only fair will attract new collectors. If they come to a glass fair they are already interested. The option of a general fair is potentially better for attracting new collectors and this can be achieved by good display, generous distribution of information and interesting stock! A glass fair offering free public entry has a better chance of attracting new people but if the advertising campaign was so odd, why did dealers rent a space. Presumably they felt that this 'new' approach might have winners and thus felt it worth a gamble... or perhaps they did no research into the fair and how the organisers organised and just rented because it was there!

When I started selling glass there was virtually no market and the very first London Decorative Arts Fair had only one other stall selling glass (Lalique and Argy Rousseau) interestingly they were also the only other glass dealers I knew of at the time who took an interest in Monart - as a result of my display. When that fair relocated to Kensington on its 3rd or 4th outing, there were still no other glass only sellers, I recall, although they started to appear around about then. As many as twenty percent of my customers were new to collecting and I got a lot of new customers from those fairs. My stall at Portobello was actually better than any fair and was also responsible for bringing dozens into glass collecting. To be honest, when I switched to Scottish Glass from silver and general, I stopped selling. It took 12 months before I made my first sale but by that second year I had people seeking me out.

The other things less likely to be found at a specialist fair is bargains and complete oddities

[Patrick]

The other things less likely to be found at a specialist fair is bargains and complete oddities

Hi, I agree that is true if you compare a Glass fair to a general Antique fair and a Car boot where bargains are to be had from sellers that have done minimal  research into the prices of items they are selling.
 A specialist collector can still be lucky enough to find glass that has been missed by the dealers who are able to look and buy other dealers stock before the general public are allowed in. I am sure that there are dealer/collectors that only take a stall at Glass fairs to make money buying before the general public get in.
Regards Patrick.

[Bernard C]

... A specialist collector can still be lucky enough to find glass that has been missed by the dealers who are able to look and buy other dealers stock before the general public are allowed in. ...

Quite true, Patrick.   I find more bargains, and find them more cost effectively, at glass fairs than anywhere else.    And sometimes I find them well after the public are allowed in.   And that general statement is true for me by a factor of two or three, not just by a small margin.    Most of the finest pieces of British glass I have had through my hands have been bought at glass fairs.

In my considered opinion, what the glass collecting community in Britain desperately needs is a cheap and cheerful glass market, somewhere central like the two huge barns at Ryton, held on the Saturday before Gayton so that long-distance dealers and collectors can combine the two.   Something like £25 for a single, £40 for a double, no extra tables, no power, two badges per single or double, badgeholder entry 10.00 – 12.00, public £2.00 12.00 – 2.30.   It seems to me that such an event would encourage general dealers to save up their best glass and participate.   I keep suggesting it, but no-one seems interested, so there must be something obvious wrong with the idea.

This would address the serious problem with the existing glass fairs — their cost.   The cost of display space at these fairs has risen sharply over the last decade, eliminating inexpensive glass as its margins don't warrant its display.   So my cheap and cheerful Bagley, Sowerby, Chance, Davidson, Victorian pressed, &c., &c. gathers dust in boxes left at home.   Tough on the novice collector or those with limited budgets, who are those we should be attracting.

Bernard C. 

[David E]

I am sympathetic towards a lower-end glass fair/market. Stalls offering good-quality, low-priced glass, should attract plenty of stallholders and, in all likelihood, a healthy serving of punters.

Location is also key, and somewhere readily accessable from the motorway network around the Midlands could do well. The computer exhibitions I organised in the Midlands (c.1993-97) were always situated at the National Motorcycle Museum on the A45 and right next to the rail, air and motorway networks! Couldn't have been better.

Of course, this venue might not be so suitable for the type of fair proposed.

[Pip]

I agree - that's a great idea Bernard.  I would have no objection to paying a nominal fee like £2 to attend a fair such as the one you mentioned where I'm much more likely to end up buying things.  I'm afraid a £5 or £10 entrance fee to attend the exisiting glass fairs where I'm extremely unlikely to buy anything (serious glass out of my budget) is not feasible in my case.

[nigel benson]

An interesting series of postings by Frank, Bernard, David and Pip.

Unfortunately, climates change and what was suitable back in the 1980's or 1990's is not the same as now. Fashion, new information, economics (with all the implications), for instance, all have a part to play.

As for checking out the advertising campaign of a new organiser before you book, well, think on. I have traded at fairs at all levels over the last 21 or so years - from straightforward Sunday fairs through to 20th Century at Olympia, and including the DMG fairs and the NEC. These fairs all have different forms of promotion and are tailored to the relevant budget.  Olympia even has an additional, non-optional advertising budget on top of the cost of the fair (not to mention an extra fee for electricity, etc, etc.) An existing fair has a known and tested campaign for all to follow, but a new organiser is (was) unlikely to give out details of a fresh approach to the subject as, to them, it is a sensative issue. A general indication was given by the organiser's of Dulwich and that was enough for many dealers to book. I have rarely felt any need to ask direct questions about an organisers promotion package, since that is generally regarded as their province. Trust is, or has been, part of the process. Maybe, this should change and we should all ask arkward questions of the organiser, but I doubt it practicable.

However, the over-riding issue was not should I ask a question about the promotion of the fair, it was a relief that at last someone was prepared to run a fair in the London area. Both Dulwich and Reflect were announced within the same month, so there is now even a choice for 2008. This demand was apparently driven by both collectors and dealers who have all long been asking for someone to run a London based glass fair, so why question a demand that we (and I mean we) dealers were already aware of? But, if the promotion is not placed where it would attract the known demand, but elsewhere, presumably because the budget was only so big, then the whole thing becomes reliant on word of mouth. This should be good, but only if dealers as a whole are buzzing with the news. Because there was no use of the trade papers, there was no news, even if only to attract the dealers! The dynamics of this process were, for me, not given the creadance they perhaps should have had.

I do not believe I know the barns at Ryton, but the idea of placing a fair such as you suggest Bernard the day before a major event in the glass calendar beggers belief. I'm not surprised that you had little response. In itself the idea could work, but my immediate reaction is that it be, say, in July or even August. Allow it space to breathe and it could work in it's own right, instead of putting a spanner in the works of an existing event and trying to work off the back of it. Whether the economics would work out at the prices you suggest I leave that to whoever takes up the gauntlet, but unless it is an immediate sell-out, both stalls and gate, I have a feeling that the organisers could make a loss on promotion alone.

It would appear that, since the rebuild of the Motor Cycle Museum rental costs have sky rocketed, which is why the Gaydon fair remained where it moved to and why other organisers (several) have costed it as a more up-market venue - and still can't make the figures work. I therefore doubt it would be a possible venue for the type of fair suggested.

I note that two entry times are suggested, one with badges that appear to be attached to the stand holders and a second later entry for the public. This could engendour a feeling that all the bargains have gone before opening to the public - as we have seen discussed ealier. For the type of fair being envisaged maybe this isn't such a good idea. Yet, in my opion one of the reasons that Woking ultimately failed was that the opening rush dissappeared when early/trade entry was introduced. Without that rush and the resultant hum that is nescessary to give buyers confidence it felt doomed, so this side of the equation needs careful thought and treatment. If that dynamic is wrong it will not help the fair along.

Lastly, since we are now discussing a new sort of glass fair and there has been little about the original question posed by Graham, it seems that the concensous is that there aren't enough glass fairs in the UK!!

Nigel
   

[David E]

Interesting thoughts Nigel, but as for Bernard's suggestion "beggaring belief", I would have thought this would give dealers an opportunity to spread their costs over a single weekend, at two quite different fairs.

The other point to ask: what do the general public want? Some dealers might consider a Saturday fair (day before Gaydon) is a non-starter, possibly because it would attract a different clientele, but I personally think it might just attract a fresh influx of collectors.

Like Pip, I would be more attracted to this type of fair. That's not to say I don't enjoy the up-market variety (Gaydon, Cambridge, Dulwich), which exhibits how wide the range of glass collecting can be.

As for Graham's original suggestion, I think this topic does indeed amplify the need for more fairs – but not neccessarily ones having the same format

[Anne]

There are no glass fairs in the north after the short-lived and now seemingly defunct Northern Glass Fair.  We attended the first one at Harrogate and enjoyed it tremendously, although it was not busy. It was held at the same time as the big antiques event nearby, and I suspect didn't benefit in the way the organisers had hoped from that proximity. The subsequent move to Haydock Park doesn't appear to have improved things as there has been no news of this fair since Oct 2006, and the website for it is now gone. Perhaps its short-lived timespan indicates there isn't a great demand for a glass fair up here despite those of us on the board who live in the north who would welcome one.

As to having two entry times, I can't think of anything other than a high entry price which would deter me more from attending an event than knowing that the first few hours are dealers only and they have the advantage over the public in terms of seeing what is there first.

From my own experiences at various (non-glass) shows, I think that Saturday events are not as well supported as Sunday ones because there are so many other family related demands on people's time on a Saturday. For those who work or who have children, the demands of a Saturday include having to shop, sports events, taking the kids to various activities, and so on. Once those are done then Sunday can be spent in leisure activities like visiting glass fairs.

[Leni]

As a 'punter', I would say that I would definitely spend more at glass fairs if the prices were lower!  I often see the same items at a succession of fairs, and every time I think, "No, I'm still not going to buy it, however much I like it.  And nor is anyone else - that's why it's still there!"  Yet the dealers never seem to drop the prices    I often find myself wondering why they can't see that they'd sell twice as much if they charged half the price!  I know dealers have to get back what they've paid for something plus cover their costs, but surely there has to be a compromise situation? 

So I would certainly love a 'cheap and cheerful' glass fair like Bernard suggests, where dealers brought their little cheap items and even pieces with small amounts of damage - although I know I'm on a limb with this one 

Another problem for me as a buyer is the fact that so few dealers take 'plastic'!  And yes, I know the reasons they don't.  But everywhere you see shops refusing to take cheques these days.  Soon glass fairs will be the only places you need a cheque book!      Personally, I never carry a cheque book, preferring to use a debit card, and I only usually have a couple of cheques stuffed in my wallet for 'emergencies'.  So frequently at a glass fair I don't buy more than 2 items because I've already used my cheques!  (Unless of course some kind person who knows and trusts me allows me to send them a cheque in the post.  You know who you are    Thank you! )

[David E]

Agree about the two-tier entry prices - very discriminatory and off-putting to the general public when they know the dealers are 'creaming off the top'!

However, in a way I disagree about the distinction between Saturdays and Sundays: these days there seems very little difference between the two - many shops open, sports events.

Leni, I'm not overly concerned about tiny nibbles or base wear either, providing I am alerted to them at the time of purchase — and a suitable price tag is fixed!

Made suitable modifications to credit cards years ago (cut the bu**ers in half! ) and only use debit or cheques now.