Topic: Are there too many glass fairs in the UK?

[yelooc]

Firstly thanks very much for responding to my question; it has been a very interesting debate. I asked the question because I am consious that overhead markets collapse and we are in difficult times across the whole antiques trade.

I have a little bit of inside knowledge since I was one of the founders of the Cambridge Glass Fair and therefore understand the finances quiet well. I pulled out because I did not have the time required to match the huge effort that Paul and Christina put in to staging the event. I was also not interested in providing a service to people that I did not find very grateful. And the missing piece of information that you probably all need is that Glass Fairs dont make much money (if any!). Frankly, I often wonder why they bother; but am very glad that they do.

We have an extremely vibrant glass collecting industry in the UK and I suggest that we all listen to the Australian contributor who points out how lucky we are. Its vibrant because lots of very enthusiastic people make important contributions with little or no return. This includes the collectors who stage exhibitions at glass fairs to educate the public and those that put their time into the GA and GC.

Indusries need to be supported by those who gain from them and paying a small entrance fee at a glass fair perhaps should be viewed as our contribution.

Pip, the next Cambridge glass fair is in February; I can assure you that you will learn alot; I always do. Here's the deal. I'll pay your entrance fee and you can write us a review posted here!

Bernard "no one ever listens to me", should ask himself why?

The day that these fairs 'go broke' we will all wish we'd listened to the Aussies!!

Graham

[Pip]

LOL Graham (I've only just sussed out that's who you are thanks to David) whilst it's very kind of you to offer to pay my entrance at the Feb CGF, £5 or £10 is obviously not beyond my reach - it's more the principle of the thing and, I suppose, I like complaining! Seriously, although I find the entrance fee irksome it's not what's stopped me visiting the fair in the past - my daughter's busy schedule of activities is the main reason.

If I were to look upon the CGF like a visit to my favourite museum then the entrance fee would be OK - after all I'll happily pay a tenner to visit the Natural History Museum with my daughter - but it would therefore be an educational visit and not a business one.  In other words I wouldn't be visiting with the intention of buying anything (it's all too expensive for me anyway, I'm right squeaky these days) just to look and learn.

[johnphilip]

I Agree with Patrick often i have been at the front of the queue and found many stunning pieces at the back of tables with bargain prices and when i have picked them up have been told by the stallholder oh no thats what i paid for it earlier or even last night at fairs that set up the night before,many friends have told me thats why they have stopped going to fairs.

[josordoni]

I have to say that the only Glass fair I go to is Cambridge, and I don't buy anything there either. I don't mind paying to get in, as I know I'm not going to buy anything (unless it is very wee and just for me - I have no room for any serious collection) but it is a great opportunity for me to meet with people I talk to here, and to the glass experts, and just get a physical feel for glass I may never have the chance to buy.

And it gets me out of the house and away from the computer for a change!!!

[Sue C]

And we oop north get nowt,..... please dont all shout at once.....!!!  i did get in touch with lumley estates....but it is being sold.

[yelooc]

John, you're a very naughty man! You've been a glass dealer for ten years without admitting it. You buy as low as possible and sell for as much as you can just like the other dealers; and so you should!

The answer to your issue is simple; buy a table, get in with the other dealers and enjoy the benefits.

People in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones; or get them out of the back of their car!

Graham

[johnphilip]

No Graham I have been collecting glass for thirty years, for the last few years i have been selling a few pieces to mostly dealer friends who are pleased not to have to look for stock,I am doing this so i can still buy glass on a small pension,I still support glass fairs i even put a lot of effort in to help promote one and have been doing so for a long time.do you not buy as cheap as you can and sell for as much as you can,any glass i take to a fair is for stallholders that have asked me or for identification or discussion thats what makes glass fairs work,I do not sell to their customers i believe you have bought from me or are you the other Graham known as Mr Sour Grapes.I thought this forum was for discussion a question was asked and i picked up on Patricks thread i thought it may help understand why attendance has fallen ,several people have told that is why they have stopped attending.You have made this personal did i hit a raw nerve.I am now selling on ebay the pieces i no longer want so i dont have to put up with your xhit.Happy new year to the rest of you.John.

[vidrioguapo]

Pleeeeeease don't let this thread deteriorate into personal attacks.  The question was about fairs and are there too many.

I love them, in the South East we are starved of any large glass displays, and I mean good glass and don't mind paying the entrance fee, although I do think a limit of £5.00 is enough. It gives the opportunity for me to see and sometimes buy, glass which does not seem to be readily available on ebay, or  local auctions. 

I think the organisers are in the hands of the owners of the venue who also have escalating costs in respect of insurance, business council tax and heating fuels etc.  I think it likely that nobody in the "chain" makes a lot of money and I think we cannot expect a cheap day out any more.  If you go to the theatre these days it costs an arm and a leg for the same reasons already outlined above, so if you want to go, you just have to bite the bullet.  One thing that does "irk" me though is that there is the odd venue which also charges £3.00 + for parking , usually in an area that would not be making any revenue anyway on a Sunday if there was no fair or other leisure event. Happy New Year

Emmi

[Frank]

Debate on the GMB often results in assumptions being made on minor side-points, and care is needed when making a statement about other individuals based on these.

  most collectors deal too, very few can afford to forever buy... whether it is for money or space, or just because one is bored with a piece? What eBay has done is to make it a lot easier for the collector to sell and particularly the smaller low value pieces which at one time were virtually unsellable except as parts of large lots.

For example my stamp collection - I was offered one thousand pounds by a dealer, since then I have sold about 40% of the collection and taken around 5,000 via web-site and eBay. Nice thing is that as many collectors have bought the common pieces as the rarer pieces so that the spread still remains good with rarer and common material.

The map collection was declared unsaleable by the dealers, as a lot, so I sold first singly and then some batched lots. Some 60% of the maps have sold.

Most of the glass I sold was high ticket stuff so more distorting for the collection, but that was a choice of necessity rather than anything else. My one remaining important and perfect vase is now up for sale too - no fixed price and I am as happy to sell via a dealer as any other way - except I choose not to use eBay in this case... might have to if I don't get a realistic offer soon.

It never occurs to me to try via a Glass Fair. Of course when I was in the trade those things did not happen and you only had half a dozen selling outlets in the whole of the UK, supplemented by a lot of auctions and those dreadful cabinet warehouses where the sellers were at work and buying was near impossible. So to deal successfully you needed a shop to keep things turning over but also to buy stock. My first few years in the trade were a travelling frenzy, constantly hunting but after a few years 90% of the stock came through the door - with 2 market outlets, I never felt the need to tour in fairs. When I started to specialise, I cut down to the shop and Portobello with all the glass at Portobello. People would visit regularly from as far away as Scotland 3 or 4 times a year - eventually I dropped the shop and just continued one day a week at Portobello. By then I only looked in shops/markets that I was passing by - most of my stock was brought to me at Portobello, or by appointment elsewhere.

I found this debate interesting as it threw up many surprises and puzzles.

[Frank]

On the original remark - one glass fair per two months is hardly overkill. It takes any business at least two years to approach stability although legislation is making it very difficult for small businesses (5 or less people) as they are seen by tax authorities as troublemakers.

Running fairs is traditionally a lucrative business but one that does require substantial management, marketing and organisational skills. It does seem from some of the things said here that for Glass they are often very amateurish affairs. I would also dispute that the UK boasts a particularly strong collecting community for glass... why are there so few glass galleries - come to Amsterdam and see many with prices that make UK dealers green in envy. There are glass artists here that sell for four or five figure sums - admittedly there is less of 20th century historical interest, mostly derived and dull - but for collectors of antique engraved stemware and modern art glass there are very rich hunting grounds.

The few (general antiques and art) fairs that have happened in Amsterdam tend towards classical antiques, though modern glass does show too, the stock is extremely expensive - usually the finest condition and well documented. They sell!