Topic: Interesting Engraved Goblet - German? English? Czech?

[krsilber]

Well that was a nice reply from Ms. Spillman.  Interesting that she hadn't ever seen a piece like it, having seen as much glass as she has!  I wonder if the people at the Passau Museum could tell you anything about it, or the Victoria and Albert.  Would you mind if I sent your photos to those places (unless, of course, you prefer to yourself)?  I'd love to be able to win it myself, but doubt I could bid high enough, and this puppy has me more curious than any piece has for a long time.  It's so unusual and distinctive.  Good luck with your auction!  I'll be watching...

[azelismia]

the Passau museum books have a number of examples very like this. Franz de Paula Zach, is the main maker of this sort of thing referenced in the PMCIII.237

Karl Pfohl Steinschonau  did a lot of color engraving with horses and riders referenced in PMCIII.72 73 and 74

I found this a year or so ago on the net, it's someone's tour of the passau museum. he attributes some things in there differently than the books do so you can't really take that part at it's word necessarily but it's still interesting stuff.

http://www.pixclix.com/Micro-Wave/Germany-2004/

I didn't see the particular stein I was looking at in the book for Franz de Paula Zach here. but they do have some of Karl pfohls work. the thing to remember looking at these though, is that this person is not the best photographer in the world. they look ever so much nicer in the books. it's really enlightening.

http://www.pixclix.com/Micro-Wave/Germany-2004/July06-Passau/4th%20Floor/imagepages/image14.html


the upfront vase with the two horses is plate 72 plate: 73 and 74 are blue glass



there is an engraved vase in there that has a similar style of engraving to a vase that I have but I can't photograph it for all the world. the pic that this person took of this particular vase only gets a bit of the detail and makes the engraving look washed out and hides most of the detail, when you look at this vase in the book, the detail is astounding. figures appear where it's just a blur in the museum tour photos. I want to know how they do it.

my point is, these don't look that fine in these pics but they really look spectacular when good photos are presented.


I don't know if your goblet is bohemian but I think there is a very good chance that it is. I think it looks most like the Franz pieces, Maybe I'll take this book to work with me tomorrow and scan up the page.

[azelismia]

After looking at a bunch more examples of Bohemian pieces with engraving in this style I realized the foot is totally wrong for someone like Pfohl, or of that era.  The foot on Bohemian pieces like this is typically heavy, chunky and cut.  The bowl shape would be odd, too.

Wish I knew more about what the French did in this vein.  Haven't given up on American, though.  I'm looking forward to seeing what Jane Spillman says.

Quite an enigma.

the klunky period was the 1850-1860's it's very possible that it could still be pfohl but a later period where the style had moved on from the clunk factor. the stuff from Franz de Paula Zach is not clunky though. I just found another example in the books from this company PMCIII.230

[krsilber]

Thanks for posting the links!  I'd seen them before, but forgot about looking there.  You can't post scans here, but I'd love to see the pieces in the book.  If you get a chance, could you email me an image or two?  If there's text that talks about them I could translate it, too.

I wasn't familiar with Zach's work, but I've found several pieces on the internet.  He doesn't seem to me in my Bohemian glass books, maybe because though he was born in Prague, by the time he was 20 he worked near Munich.  There's an interesting interview with Reino Reike at the Victoria and Albert Museum about a goblet he engraved at http://www.vam.ac.uk/collections/glass/audio/audio_proms_talk/index.html.  Zach died in 1881, though, which seems to place him earlier than this was made.  From the Zach pieces I've seen, his style was different than that on the goblet here, but I'd like to see a wider range of his work.  Interestingly, the goblet at the V and Z looks sort of like it has a twisted colored thread in the stem, but it could be a bubble reflecting the blue layer.  (Incidentally, Zach engraved a reproduction of the Portland Vase!)

The chunky, heavily cut feet I'm thinking of were made from about 1830 until at least 1880.  Not all feet on pieces engraved in this style were like that, but even the plainer, round ones on the goblets in the links are quite heavy.  Are those in your books are lighter?

It's interesting to think about the possibility that the goblet was engraved on the Continent based on an American image (or images), as Ms. Spillman suggested.  That would almost certainly mean that it was made after 1902 because of the position of the chevron, unless for some reason it was deliberately inverted.  That makes sense to me, too, considering the form and designs on the bowl and foot.  The cut design on the bowl has always reminded me more of Art Nouveau stuff from Steinschonau than earlier work, but who was engraving in this style (and with this skill) then?  Although as Kerri pointed out there were many engravers around, this piece is extremely well-executed.  To get the detail evident here in colorless glass would be difficult enough, but to also get such precise shading in cased glass is pretty phenomenal.  The detail on the horses' heads is astonishing.  The red is very dark and shallow, so you get dramatic contrast with little change in depth.

I'd give a year of my life to own this goblet and be able to study it! 

[eglass]

Sorry not to check in sooner, it's been a crazy few days here with life interfering.

Thank you all for the great input on this piece!

Kristi, you're welcome to link to my photos or save them to your computer and use in any manner you wish - that goes for anyone here who'd like to do so.

Azelismia, thank you so much for posting the links to Orville's trip to Germany, and the many museum photos! If that's the same Orville I'm thinking of, he's quite the collector and sometimes visits eBay's Glass Board to share photos of his collection and exchange ideas. I know exactly what you mean also regarding the difficulty in capturing good images of detailed engravings without professional equipment - I must have taken 100 shots of this goblet alone and still wasn't able to get a good detail shot of the texture of the engraving to my satisfaction.

Peter, many thanks.  

 

[obscurities]

Can the new owner shed any light on the piece?  Did you ask them if they had any additional information? Who knows, they may have 3 and needed a 4th to complete a set....

I just sold a set of 4 early opalescent vaseline optic swirl shades that I could not identify, and after the auction the under bidder who was in the US told me she thought they may be WAS Benson.... They went to Scotland. 

If you have not asked, you may want to out of curiosity...... I always do.... they may be that "someone" I referred to that would know the answers all of us were trying to come up with    :thup:

I watched the auction and thought the result would make you happy!

Congratulations.

Craig

[eglass]

Craig, I will contact them later today - the piece should have arrived yesterday, so I want to make sure it's in their hands safely anyway, and will invite them to join us on this Board for further discussion. If they'd rather not do that, I'll at least ask if they have any further info or insight on the goblet, and I'll report back.

This sale's proceeds paid off some plane tickets and hotel rooms for my daughter's wedding in October, so we're tickled pink!

Thanks again!

[eglass]

Anne, thank you for moving things around for us.

The new owner has generously shared his personal website, which shows some amazing examples of his collections. Here is some of his email to me today, after the goblet arrived there (whew!):

"Dear Kelli, first let me thanks for your Mail with the tracking Nr. of this Goblet und for your perfect service. Second: Also here in Germany nobody can say which glass engraver in Bohemia made this Goblet. The time it was etched is 1850-1860 i think. And there are two names which had the talent to make it. They are 1. Karl Guenther from Steinschoenau and 2. Karl Pfohl also Steinschoenau. I think this Goblet is made from Karl Guenther but he has not signed his works and there is not one glass with his signature. If you are interested please look to my homepage there is a nice Karl Pfohl Goblet in Blue (Litophanie etching) with a horse. www.kunstundglas.de"

If you look at his website, the goblet is under the "sonstiges glas" link over on the right.

[krsilber]

Very nice to have a buyer who's willing to share their information!  Wow, he has some nice glass!

After reading his email I did a search for Karl Günther, and lo and behold, found a glass of a very similar form attributed to him (to see it you'll have to go to this page and do a search; can't link to it:  http://www.auctions-fischer.de/_shop/shop.php4?auktion=89)
Then reading about him in Pazaurek's Gläser der Empire- und Biedermeierzeit found out that he worked in France for a while, among other places (makes me wonder whether the blank might be French???).  Perhaps the soldier in the picture is French - they wore chevrons, I believe.

Anyway, it ain't American!  Who could've suggested such a preposterous idea?

[Frank]

Good result and home  Puzzled by the Litophanie etching (=Lithopane) as the blue piece is not as far as I can see?