Topic: Whitefriars or webb tankard help please.

[Paul S.]

quote.................              "and they are pretty sure" ...........   doesn't sound like a very academic in depth provenance to me, bearing in mind that T/Webb are known to have made the same pattern, although probably not in this colour, and which is actually documented in CH - which the Stuart is not.          Would appear they are also implying that Stuart produced this blue in the 1930's - which would mean some pieces would be showing a backstamp.             Whilst we're not doubting that this blue was a Stuart colour, does anyone have a piece of Stuart in this blue with a backstamp.
I remain to be convinced until one of these surfaces with a backstamp.

However, slightly sheepish from deepest Surrey has just remembered this   ..............       http://www.glassmessages.com/index.php/topic,47818.msg269159.html#msg269159 - most definitely backstamped 'Webb', and showing the pointed Ribbonette design - so we know now what T/Webb Ribbonette looks like.

Might be of interest to show three water tumblers - only one of which is backstamped T/Webb.         The interest factor lies in the similarity of shape and size, and hope you can see which one has a pattern either the same as, or very similar to, T/Webb's Ribbonette  -  the other two I'm never really sure about - they might be Water Wave or Fir Cone  -  would anyone like to comment

[Chris Harrison]

The second photo on the linked thread appears to be of an 8-pointed pattern...

[Paul S.]

well spotted Chris, I'd never noticed that.           So, might that indicate that genuine T/Webb Ribbonette has the eight pointed pattern, whereas those pieces in this thread have only six  -  as also is apparent in the brown tumbler showing in this link, which I forgot to add
But here it is.......

[Chris Harrison]

Ah!  I know where I can find that tumbler in the mysterious turquoise blue.  I'll see if I can get a pic of them tomorrow.  Not marked, of course...if I remember right.

Are those other two marked Webb?

[brucebanner]

Is that Webbs Conifer in the middle and right in your picture Paul?, i come across that pattern all the time, i don't think i have had one signed, anyway like you say it will probably take a signed example to seal the deal and put the subject to rest once and for all.

[Paul S.]

the centre glass (clear) and to the right (uranium) may well be conifer (oddly I can't find that pattern in CH's b & w drawings) - I get confused with conifer and fir cone in view of the obvious connection          Some of these indistince patterns are not easy to id (or to photograph).
 
I have four of the brown tumblers  -  none of which is marked...........        six of the clear sort with three marked.............         and six of the uranium type all of which are marked, and all those which are marked, have an identical T/Webb backstamp - the sort we usually refer to as 1935 - 49 (Dodsworth).                 Since two out of three are from the same factory, I had also connected the brown one on the basis of similarity  -  however, this may be too much assumption  -  it's quite possible that many pre-war tumblers had this sort of look.         
It's perhaps significant that all of the clear and uranium glasses (the known T/Webb pieces), are thinner than the brown ones - they also have a good ring, and appear to be of a higher quality glass than the others  -  although it might be just the thickness making the difference.

It does seem that genuine T/Webb Ribbonette (with a backstamp) is very thin on the ground, despite having been in production for some years, and it will be interesting to see if any other pieces surface showing eight points, but at least we do now have a marked one for reference.             

quote................"I remain to be convinced until one of these surfaces with a backstamp."..........           bit of a wooly comment, so just to clarify.......       I was referring to the blue pieces with the pointy pattern, shown in this thread, which the museum are now suggesting are Stuart.......               I need to see one of these pointy patterned pieces with a Stuart backstamp (especially as the museum reckon they come from the 1930's)  -   blue or othewise - to be convinced they are from that factory.               
I also now don't think that all these tankards and jugs etc., with this type of Ribbonette pattern, are from T/Webb (for one reason I'm sure Webb didn't do this blue) - but just have a feeling that with so many coming to light there'd be at least the odd example with a T/Webb backstamp, so Bernard may well be correct in thinking of a Continental origin.

[Lustrousstone]

I wonder if they are indeed Stuart but newer than 1930s based on the colours and were made for Woolworths, which would explain their adequate rather than good quality, their prevalence, range of colours and lack of backstamp. We forget just how important Woolworths was in furnishing the lives of ordinary folk. Are they lead crystal?

[bfg]

Are we definitely discounting S&W from the list of suspects?

I mention S&W as the brown jug & glasses I have don't seem good matches colour wise for either Stuart or T/Webb and I've found a reference to this auburn brown (link below) I don't know who they are or how they came to their attribution are they one of us?

scroll down (past the Stuart Stratford rings dessert set in that blue, line 10 I think

http://www.stylendesign.co.uk/guidepages/archive/garchivemaster9.html

Paul, if you would like me to send you one of the blue tankards to help with the comparison with Stuart's blue, let me know :-)

[Lustrousstone]

Auburn is a rich reddish amber according to Crystal Years, which doesn't sounds like that brown looks IMO

[bfg]

oh well, that's a non starter then. thanks anyway Christine, reddish amber?

does anyone have anything in this elusive colour they would care to post here for comparison ?