Topic: Opaline (?) white, enamelled, gilded, goblet/vase with lettering

[catshome]

last ones

1st pic shows inside.  It appears to have a coating which is thinner towards the rim.  The rim is much more translucent than the body of the piece.  Suspect it is done to compensate for the greyish glass.

2nd is base against strong light, where it looks completely white.

[chopin-liszt]

Sorry to sound mean, but could the "internal coating" actually be water damage?
It looks rather like a seriously water damaged thing I found recently - it was such a thick coating I hoped it would not be water damage and come off. It didn't. 

[flying free]

I think the interior looks crizzled or as Sue says possible water damage.

Nonetheless, there are only, I think, three of these souvenir bechers in the museum in Budapest collection as far as I could see.  Spas were important in Hungary in the 19th century so for there only to be three in the museum is a loss of history.
I rarely ever see any Hungarian glass I can identify online (even if Bohemian made but enamelled in Hungary or for the Hungarian market) and I would have bought it regardless of the damage, because of this.

There is an article on Jstor written about Hungarian spa glass in the early 19th century but I can't get on to read the whole thing at the moment as I'm out of my allocation for a few weeks unfortunately.  Irritating as I'd love to know more about yet another piece of glass I don't own 

I love it.  A really good piece of history.  I love the style of the gilded letters as well.  Often see that on Russian glass items with the flourishes in the letter formation.  Really pretty.

[chopin-liszt]

I would be really surprised if something of this age did not have considerable damage.
I think a bit of water staining can be very easily forgiven - especially as it doesn't really show up through the white. 

[catshome]

Thank you both for the replies.

I did wonder if it was lime scale.  Thought about trying to clean it to see, but then thought I'm not familiar with this type of glass, so I wasn't sure what effect the cleaner would have.  Final thought was that, if it was added deliberately, I might mess it up and so I left it.  I have just had a look with a stronger magnification loupe, and the finish appears to be very finely pitted inside, rather than coated.  Perhaps wherever was in it removed any polished surface that it may have had.

Are the pictures enough to determine what it's made of and confirm whether the flowers are indeed hand painted?

Is it possible to narrow the date down from 19th century?

[chopin-liszt]

I can't see the flowers well enough to determine any if there are any brush strokes or raised bits of thicker enamel - but I can't see any dark outlines from a print either.

I have seen transfer prints of an outline, subsequently filled in by hand painting, but this is not that either.
Can you see or feel raised sections of enamels, or brush strokes? 

[catshome]

No outlines, no dots,  definitely raised areas, some of the enamels have blobs that have cracked or pitted.

Just lost the entire post I was in the middle of, with links.  Off to try and remember what I was talking about!

[flying free]

It's handpainted and gilded.

Dating would be a guess.  I'd have said c. 1860s but that is a guess. You'd need to find a similar shape with similar base to verify that.

The interior is water damaged. I am pretty sure it hasn't been coated with anything,
The alabasterglas is just thinner at the rim because it is.  Not for any reason.
It's white alabasterglas hand enamelled and gilded.  It just happens to have a greyish/blueish cast to it.

If I get onto JStor at the end of the month when I get my allocation, and manage to read the article, and it has anything interesting linked to your piece, I'll come back
There are no other pieces in the museum that would help.
You could try searching Dr Fischer Auctions, also Glas Kilian and Antiques Neurwirth who all have a very good collection of Biedermeier and Mid 19th century glass. 

m

[catshome]

Thank you both for your replies.  I have read the Jstor article - very interesting and great resource that I hadn't seen before.  Unfortunately, all the illustrations are of clear etched water glasses, and much earlier in date.  But it was still useful to read and learn more.

Found this on the cmog site, which has similarities in the colour and the gold banding around the top, but appears to be much better quality

https://www.cmog.org/artwork/alabaster-goblet-0

Also looked up crizzled on cmog, not sure this would apply to mine as it has a very definite dry feel inside, as opposed to the wet/oily feel described on the site.

Lovely example of a covered goblet here

https://mousaantiques.co.uk/index.php/product/56-goblet-and-cover/

So far I'm thinking......bohemian, hand painted, made for the Hungarian spa market, mid 19th century, alabaster glass, souvenir goblet. 


NB: I was retyping this post when M replied, so our posts have crossed

[chopin-liszt]

Lime scale and water damage are different things.
Lime scale will dissolve in vinegar and come off, but water damage is intrinsic to the glass itself.
Polishing is the only way to get rid of it, and that's a very major repair.
Crizzling is something else, yet again - but is also major damage to the glass.