Topic: A drinking glass for period identification

[Laird]

A folded foot 'sherry' glass, with a broken pontil.
Is it Victorian? Georgian? A reproduction?

[Paul S.]

Hi  -  the engraving looks very crude - not the sort of quality that might be expected on a period piece  -  of course, engraving on a glass might be added at any time after the piece was made.
Do copyists bother to copy a folded foot ? - really no idea, which presumably requires some skill to create.       I'd have thought that tooling marks should be apparent, plus of course wear  -  here there is an everted rim on a bucket bowl - perhaps the wonkiness is deliberate.              Really don't know what to think  -  what was the source of this glass  -  assuming you don't mind saying - is this lead glass?              Sorry none of this is really helpful as to accurate dating.

[NevB]

It's difficult to date without seeing it in the flesh but it looks 18thC., although I'm no expert. This site might help:

https://www.antique-marks.com/support-files/antique-marks-georgian-glass-2.pdf

[Laird]

Thank you for the reference link.
Checking my glass against the described criteria, it seems to tick all the boxes, making me fairly confident that it is Georgian.

[Paul S.]

I hate to be a gainsayer, but ...............   the linked article draws attention to grape and vine engraving, imperfections in the glass, and the evidence of a snapped pontil  -  all of which can be found on glass throughout the C19 and to some extent into the C20 - so such features are far from conclusive for dating.            In the 1920 - 30 period, there was a passion for replicating Georgian styles - all of the big glass makers indulged and they made some nice pieces, that are now the best part of a century old and with use will now show all the signs of antiquity, and be difficult to separate from genuine C18 pieces.     Probably fair to say that it takes time to learn how to assess old glass  -  features such as shape and colour can help, but as NevB says handling something in the flesh really is the only way to feel as sure as we can be, and spending much time at fairs handling old pieces is essential.   
I'll just repeat my comment about the engraving - it looks very crude compared to period work, and looks very white  -  not what we'd expect to see on an old glass.          The Georgians were long lived  -  1714 to1830  -  so perhaps we should try to be a tad more specific.

[Ekimp]

I think I have a couple like this (packed away). If I remember, they didn’t ping when flicked and I thought they were 18c but continental. Can’t remember how I came to that conclusion though!

[Paul S.]

the problem with glass (maybe glass in particular), is that we all want ours to be old  -  as in really old, and the magic word that collectors love is 'Georgian'  -  Continental pieces often don't ping.

[neil53]

Hi, we believe that the glass dates from the beginning of the 19th century - c1820 - so is late Georgian, and the engraving is typical of the period for tavern glasses; done quickly and without much care and attention.  We've had quite a few pass through our hands and I attach images of the last one we had.  They are (or at least the ones that we have had) lead glass but don't tend to ring when flicked with a nail due to the thickness, shape and size of the bowl.  Hope this helps.  Kind regards, Neil

[Paul S.]

Unfortunately, Neil, this doesn't get round the issue that those criteria mention in the linked article from NevB - "grape and vine engraving, imperfections in the glass, and the evidence of a snapped pontil" - don't on their own confirm that such pieces are c. 1820.     So, what you're saying is that with pieces like this it's the shape, the folded foot and the knops that are the deciding factors.     

[neil53]

Hello Paul, yes, as I believe Peter (oldglassman on this site) used to say - "if everything is right about a glass then it must be right". Peter, of course, is one of the most knowledgeable experts on Georgian glass alive today, and helped mentor me in my early days of trading in Georgian glass.  The glass in question meets all the criteria of a Georgian glass including rough pontil mark (although many were polished off by the date of this glass), grey metal, striations and other toolmarks from the use of pucellas, naive English wheel-engraving, imperfections in the metal, style (including bowl shape, stem formation and folded foot) and wear.  This style is also not uncommon as far as Georgian glasses are concerned e.g. this one on the Scottish Antiques site - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/365054696383?_skw=georgian+dram+glass&itmmeta=01J85HFN95V272SYA72VCMVR0Z&hash=item54fef49bbf:g:n8AAAOSwZilmtHWo&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8HoV3kP08IDx%2BKZ9MfhVJKk7WlbYR1GSsPWl3%2FkLWAI2IGg5LYO%2BSAcBOqj01vTaKtA1ClRlJ2TJDa1b%2BYvnnFTALdBTXq8v5PDgQGZqx7y9lsmKLfU8s03F7kDFbDDv1FcnUXupbEEWfQTCuNoJMnuxxVapiXbk%2FeMxxba%2FYUYJMcbeU%2Bz01ECNNDb%2FfbTcjfpm%2FWIpXiv4Hf8D63KiqORFQeyIMglvDLl7LC7P46Ps2NzibqrPecg7YejBwC7q3ZS9oTpwgJNiWYdodO5ZgQmynWpDyZR2gmShgJeeCnzBfxBgQxVasuFMfsLo4iD93Q%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-LUvrHBZA - and is recognised as such.  Hopefully I've answered your question but please let me know if I have misunderstood what you were asking for. I'm always happy to help identify glass of this period in Peter's absence (hopefully temporarily) from the site.  The least I can do for all those who help me identify more modern glass.

One last point, folded feet were popular in the early to mid 18th century and then saw a resurgence in the early 19th from when this glass dates
 Kind regards